What next?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4119
Printed Date: 06 Aug 25 at 1:28pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What next?
Posted By: rs405
Subject: What next?
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:17pm
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Whats a good boat to go for after a 405? I am reasonably experienced and currently crew a laser 4000 at club level. I'm too heavy for a 29er but am not really that fussed about single/double hander, though I would need something I can sail with a novie crew. Any suggestions? ------------- 420, 470, 405, laser 4000 |
Replies:
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:21pm
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420's seem to carry weight better than 29ers, there's some many options you may need to be more specific.
------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:22pm
| Sounds like another contender for an Alto to me. |
Posted By: James Morley
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:29pm
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RS200 or 400 depending on your weight. These may not be as fast as many other choices however you can't beat the fleets and the quality of the sailors. ------------- James rs200 225 N12 3214 for sale Splash 2297 for sale |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:31pm
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How heavy are you? Where do you sail? What kind of sailing do you want to do? Racing? Crusing? Fast, wet and exciting? ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: Mopps
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:41pm
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well what about getting a 4k yourself carry weight well nice and easy to sail does all the jobs and they're dead cheap x ------------- I am the boatwhore B14 694 |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 7:52pm
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Have to agree with Ross, more info required before the Cherub/Contender arguement continues!!!???
------------- |
Posted By: rs405
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 8:16pm
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I'm probably about 11st and about 5'11". I want something fast and wet but manageable with various crew sizes and abilities. Im giving the 4k some thought and am hoping the one I crew at the moment will be for sale when the helm leaves uni this year. What about singlehanders? Dont really want a laser though. ------------- 420, 470, 405, laser 4000 |
Posted By: rs405
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 8:17pm
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And I sail on southampton water. ------------- 420, 470, 405, laser 4000 |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 9:08pm
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Get a 600!!!! Their awesome (not that I have one or anything) But seriously.... you already have trapezing experience from the 4k (exactly like my brother and I did! Adam ------------- |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 9:10pm
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Oops..... just read that you want something for a novice crew aswell. Sorry!! Cant you hire or borrow something for those days?! ------------- |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 9:12pm
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The 4k would be a good choice, depending on just how novice your crews will be if you are OK in a 4k and have the money you could look at an 800 - there must be a lot going cheap right now and it's easier than the 29er to sail imo. I've taken inexperienced people out in them. Learning to sail a high performance singlehander on soton water would be a bit scary given the traffic and most are pretty full on (RS600, MPS etc.) maybe look at a vortex with an asy or even a blaze? I'd def stay away from the 600 coming from a 405/4000, it is an animal. Harder than my 14 to sail. |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 9:12pm
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how often will you have 'access' to a crew? RS300??, amazing singlehanders. and i do miss mine a little bit now, i was around 10 stone tho taller than you but coped with the 300 and when it got going on a reach it was a great feeling,has the choice of two rigs aswell, there is a few 300 sailors lying around on the forum somewhere and the class website: http://www.rs300.org.uk/ - www.rs300.org.uk ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: GBR884
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 9:21pm
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Splosh (my brother) had a vortex before his 600........ He got bored.......so he fitted a kite..........he got bored again.........so he bought a 600........now he loves the 600 and doesn't ever want to sell it!! Although saying that the vortex may be ok if you want to take a novice out in light winds as there is plenty of room and they are very stable but then in strong winds you can go for a play!! I suppose the learning curve could be a bit steep for somewhere like soton water in a 600 or mps but once learnt it would be great fun!! Adam ------------- |
Posted By: James Morley
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 10:11pm
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I think first off all you need to narrow down your search to ether a single or double hander based on how regularly you will have a crew available. Than once you have decided narrow down your choices to a few sensible options. ------------- James rs200 225 N12 3214 for sale Splash 2297 for sale |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 10:13pm
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i have to say dont listen to all the nancy boys saying get some experience on another class before trying the 600. i jumped into my 600 with several years in a feva, one year in a laser, during which i did some furball crewing and went out on a 800 once or twice and a 700 once. Just jump into the 600, be prepared to swim alot, and ignore the muppets sitting behind the bar comenting on how much of an eejit you look! P.S. I had all of last summer after my GCSEs to muck about in the demo 600 to work out exactly what i was doing wrong. I was sailing at least every other day and it took me a long time to get up to speed enough to get around a race course in the same time as a laser due to all the capsizes. but it was sooooo much fun, and its even more fun now ive got the hang of it! ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: andy_cherub
Date Posted: 03 Apr 08 at 11:54pm
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Skiff ------------- -12ft skiff, Team 'CST Composites' -Many thanks goes out to all of my sponsors. Ignore my user name, my views are of a 12ft skiff |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 9:31am
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I'm not 100% sure you should go for the 6 straight away but they are amazing boats. I went from a cr*ppy laser (my first ever boat!) sailor to a ok'ish 4k crew then a standard vortex sailor for half a year, then fitted the assy kit i kept that for another half year and then finally progresed into the 600. The vortex was a perfet platform into "high/wet" performance boats - It was very stable and you had the extra 2-3 seconds to react to the gusts/lulls, It also can easilly carry 2 people and with the kite fitted it becomes a right hoot downwind! If thats not your thing a Laser Vago could be a ok idea - Single trap boat sailed either 1 or 2 up, i have not personally sailed one so cant really comment but it seems/looks ok!? Mark. ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 9:39am
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If you want to sail a trapeze single hander and you sail on Southampton Water you'd be daft not to get a contender. That would give you a step towards a 600 should you be tempted, you'd get loads of fun and decent racing and no, you're not too light. There's a training weekend at Weston in two weeks time. Go along and take a look. |
Posted By: rs405
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 12:10pm
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I only got the 405 as something to sail with people who cant sail and its pretty good for that. I think I might hang on to it and get a contender as well with the long term view of a 700?/
------------- 420, 470, 405, laser 4000 |
Posted By: tmoore
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 2:30pm
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i would second ratface with the rs300. it takes most people a year or so to get the hang of and most people (even on the circuit) will still go for a swim in 20knots +. but when you get it (im just about (?) starting to having bought the boat in august) then it feels so effortless as you fly past slower boats. if you want wet this boat will do that (not with spray). however it is very twitchy and very hard work to keep upright let alone race. i would say its as hard to sail as a single trapeze boat but without the hassle of hooking on etc. apart from that, try 420 if you want assymetric, i would reccomend the rs500 as a easier to sail 29er which will also take weight well. the 500's are nice and forgiving but still good fun in a breeze and i have been teaching new helms/ crews as school in them (straight after they come out of picos and toppers). i would say try each boat that you may like and make your decision based on a few sails in different conditions. ------------- Landlocked in Africa RS300 - 410 Firefly F517 - Nutshell Micro Magic RC yacht - Eclipse |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 6:17pm
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If you want a 700 in the future then just get a 700. ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 6:36pm
took me 30 minutes out on the shifty bbsc to be able to sail the 300 at decent pace, this is according to the regular circuit sailor who's boat i was sailing, but that is after about 6 months in the 600. ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 6:47pm
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I don't think there is even any point in suggesting anything until you are 100% sure whether you want to sail single or doublehanded, asymm or symm, single wire, twin wire, singlehanded wire or no wire. Otherwise it will turn into a pointless debate with each owner suggesting what they sail as it's clearly the best. If you can't decide, then go for something SMODdy and versatile like a Vago or a Vareo. ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 9:19pm
You must be super human then because steve Cockeral found it hard! The 300 to sail at an iopen event pace will take 6 months to a year! FACT ------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 9:33pm
Yeah but you haven't met George! He only took so long because he didn't want the other guys from BBSC to feel inadequate, that's all. ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 10:15pm
Thanks BNS  All i'm saying is i didn't find the 300 hard to sail at all and that's on a shifty, gusty lake. I'm not claiming that i'm better than mr. cockerill because that's just not true, ps decent pace doesn't open event pace, before you have a go you might want to read what was said. You can bring your 300 down to bbsc and i'll prove it to you if you like  ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 10:16pm
try sailing one on Bury Lake then if you think Bough Beach is shifty! ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 10:18pm
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George i have read it and it says it took 30mins on a shifty lake (probably the hardest conditions to sail a 3 in) to sail a 300 at decent pace by a regular circuit sailor, thus suggesting that it is of open circuit decent pace! I was going to take mine to BBSc for the recent open but its a bloody long way to travel for a one day event for me! ------------- |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 04 Apr 08 at 10:53pm
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[QUOTE=Merlinboy]George i have read it and it says it took 30mins on a shifty lake (probably the hardest conditions to sail a 3 in) to sail a 300 at decent pace by a regular circuit sailor, thus suggesting that it is of open circuit decent pace! I was going to take mine to BBSc for the recent open but its a bloody long way to travel for a one day event for me
Posted By: James Morley
Date Posted: 05 Apr 08 at 12:36pm
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Another important factor when buying a boat is what other classes are sailed at your club. It is much more fun if you have a few boats to race against than going round on your own.
------------- James rs200 225 N12 3214 for sale Splash 2297 for sale |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 05 Apr 08 at 5:50pm
Right to drag this back on topic, I recon the RS 200 for non trapezing crew or RS500 to add a trapeze if you want someone else to sail with, or Possibly a Vago for singlehandered and crew option. Seen one but didn't manage a sail last weekend. The downside is ......... its plastic! ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 06 Apr 08 at 5:04pm
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Single hander or two hander really is a key decision. I don't know of a boat that you can really satisfactorily sail with a crew one week and not the next.
Then if you are going to sail with pick up crews then the maximum level of complexity you want to have is a sit out asymettric boat. Performance trapeze boats really need the two of you to be sailing as a team. My pic, actually, if the requirement was to sail a two handed boat with pickup crews would be a quicker two handed boat, something like a Tasar, but I'd probably not bother and get a singlehander... The most important thing I think you need to do is to jump in every boat going and get a feel for what you like. I like International Canoes at the moment for instance, but that means not a thing when it come sto what boat you should get... The other thing is that the "get a boat like the ones at your club" is probably good advice if you have no particular preference about what sort of boat you sail. But if you do have a preference you'd better just get something you like sailing. If I owned a Laser I'd never go sailing even though there are loads at my club. I just don't enjoy racing one. But if you do enjoy racing one, and many folk do, then its a safe choice. |
Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 07 Apr 08 at 9:13am
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I wouldn't normally do this, but I'm going to throw the NS14 in to the ring. Similar to a Tasar but more modern, slightly quicker, very easy to sail (no kite or trapeze), very small sails with low loads. It is ideal for a novice crew/ different crew every week and also for sailing singlehanded with just the mainsail (I know most two man boats are rubbish in this configuration, but the NS14 sails well like this - they even have a singlehanded champioship in Oz). ------------- http://www.sailns14.org - http://www.sailns14.org - The ultimate family raceboat now available in the UK |