Thanks to Mr Darling road fund will be going up in 2009 for most cars that we might use for towing!

Road fund http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/UNFAIR-VED/ - petition

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/12/ncars112.xml - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03 /12/ncars112.xml

Gives you some idea if you have a new car. As for me, I havn't a clue with my Focus 1.8

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/car_page_content/41183.html - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/car_page_content/41183 .html

This one is a simplified and easier to understand. Now just trying to work out what band my car falls into.

The thing is, to be able to tow anything you need something with some ooommpphh. A Laser is light, but Two Lasers or the 200 is noticable. As for towing a Cat, you need som power to get up hills. Shame this has to be done, we are all conned really.

Why is the Toyota Hybrid car the only one available as standard when we are all meant to go green.

Sailing is a green sport (unlike the P1 series) but Mr Darling is hindering us enjoying ourselves.

Here's another. Even narrows down to the edition of the model of the make!

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/road-tax/ - http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/road-tax/

Just playing devils advocate, but suppose in future any car with a bit of poke is taxed off the road, I'm sure we'd still manage. As Webmuppet said, for most boats a small car is adequete. I've towed two Lasers with a 1.2 Nova and while it wasn't very fast we got there.

I've only had a quick scan through the table but it would appear that the changes only apply to 2001 cars or newer, so surely you can get round it by either having a smaller car or if you need a more powerful one, buy a 2000 model.

Having said all that it is infuriating having your lifestyle and purchasing choices limited by the government, especially when they are blatently just trying to grab extra tax and probably don't give a monkeys about the environment!

Not looking good for the younger people who can't afford a bigger engined car.. Once I can drive I would be borrowing my parents but chances are they will sell it now or make me pay the tax if they keep it for me to tow my boat around!

Although someone I know manages to pull a 2000 with a Yaris quite easily..

Thinking long term though, assuming this policy stays in place, we will all fall foul of it one day. Cars don't last forever.

Well you will not need to worry, you could tow your 30kg with a Ford Ka!

Originally posted by radixon KA's can't be fitted with a towbar!!! My car is in one of the higher bands wish I didnt look at that website now. Right, ebay here it comes!

But if you could

I need a big car to tow the dart.  By the time you factor in the boat weight, all the gear in the trailor box and overcome the drag when you're too lazy to take the tramp off - it does take some ooompf to get up to my 85mph cruising speed 

Also, I could never sleep in the back of a small hatchback at open or TT events!!

I'm going to sound like an anorak now but the Ka is one of the only, if not the only, car that you cannot legally fit a towbar to. When Ford brought it out they never specified a towing capacity or fitted mounting points so even if you had one made to fit you would be breaking some EU regulation.

I only know because I was thinking of buying one years ago, nearly did til I priced up towbars and found this out, so I went for a Peugeot 106 instead

You cant tow with some of the alloy chassis Audis as well!!!! Which is not good!

I worked ofr Ford for a while and didnt know you couldnt tow with a KA!!!!

Is that Audi thing new? Also which models have alloy chasis? As they are about to get an Audi for towing..

It depends on the roof weight limit ffor the car, i roof rack my IC everywhere no probs but that is just over the limit!!!

Quite a few turned up to the Tiger on roof racks, actually looked more practical apart from the drag factor... The ones with a road trailer look really odd, being so small!

I wish I could cartop mine but it's got a one-piece mast so I think it may be a bit too long for safety

I have a Renualt grand Espace & this will rise in tax by £90 but if I attend 1 open meeting and sleep in the van ( which is the reason i brought it ) then i will save the extra, The van will still tow a double stacker & return 32MPG when towing ( diesel ) & when I refit the seats all 7 then it back back to normal.

Nowever I also think that the threiving b*a*sta*ards in cloud 9 land should be told that WE pay for their Goverment cars,drivers,houses,expences NOT them & when WE lose our jobs WE do not get payed a  years wages as compension to allow US to get back in to the swing of life after losing a job like they do.

If we did such a bad job as Brown did and put the country in the red to the levels he has I DOUTH THAT WE WOULD HAVE BEEN PROMOTED & BE GIVEN THE TOP JOB.

Sorry for the spelling mistake -spell check not working

Just my 2P`s worth.

Thinking I might well the Scooby, Buy an older RS4 and a vintage Proka as I'll pay less road tax.

Feckin govt.

im sure it would be ok if you were careful, a guy drove up from hayling island with a nice new shiny rs300 mast on roof racks (in one piece) when i broke my old one.

possibly an 18ft skiff mast would be rather large. . . .

I converted my 4x4 to LPG and the goverment gave me £15 back, now £195 a year, I get 22mpg towing at 46 pence a litre. If you say diesel is 114 by me the thats 114/46 x 22mph thats 54mpg towing and green as well.

Should get my £1600 back in two years or 20000 miles, my volvo paid for its conversion in 12 months and I still have it, Iv done 70000 miles on lpg with my volvo.?

What's the problem? You drive a 300hp, four wheel drive car and have to pay more in running costs than a little old lady in her micra shocker?

You don't need a powerful car to tow, (I used a 205 to tow gliders at 600kg+ all over Europe for a years) you can barely drive it quickly because of the road congestion, why worry? Get something economical instead!

Of course, you can just ignore that advice and get a van that you can sleep / cook and take all your kit safely stowed and a TT for the week like me, but then I won't be the one complaining that it costs more than a micra!

Me on the way to a Taikwon-do tournament oops!

The whole congestion charge/road tax/fuel debate is one that really works me up! Only 24% of road taxes and fuel duties gets put back into our roads to make them a safer place for motorists!!!!! that means that 76% is going into a pot to subsidize Europe, The lazy benefited culture of todays Britain and the fat self serving pigs at Westminster!!!  What the government are forgetting is that if they do eventually kill off the 4x4 market (which is coming) then 10,000 people will be made unemployed at the land rover plant in the UK, probably most of the Jaguar workers too!! Apparently also the only car that falls into the "free" road tax bracket is a VW polo "Blue motion" now i don't know about anyone else here but i couldn't fit my whole family and dog in one of those poxy little things!!! I certainly couldn't take them all away with a boat on the back!!!!!!!  I'm one of the many people that is part of a 2.4 family, meaning i probably drive a Mondeo or Renault espace etc. (i don't) and these cars are also going to get nailed under the taxable emissions as well!

mmmmmfffffffffff!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really.

Grow up a bit.

Nobody needs large fast powerful cars. A modest size car and engine will easily tow any Dinghy (I use a 1.9 deisel Polo). OK so you can't go at ridiculous speeds BUT there are these little things called speed limits anyway.

If you want to race cars....fine...take up car racing BUT do it on a track, NOT the road.

Have any of you had to deal with the aftermath of high speed car crashes? I have and it's not pretty. Speed limits are there for a reason.

Polluter pays. Fine by me.

My point is that this tax will hit people who CANNOT afford to change their car; they saved up hard for their new car and bought it a couple of years ago.  NOW they may not have a 300+BHP car but they may not be able to afford to change it.

What hacks me off is that the govt has punished people for decisions the may have made 7 years ago.

I can afford the extra money, it just means that my extra 230 quid will be “spent” by the Govt. supporting the idle, or unwilling to work who appear to be the most important people in our country

The 230 quid will not be spent on something useful.

I do feel upset that as I do only about 7K miles a year, the effect of the change in my road fund is the same as if darling had added 18pence per litre of petrol:

Rip-off

My car costs £165 a year to tax now and will eventually cost £180.  £15 a year = £1.25 a month.  Come ON folks, this is peanuts. 

At 150BHP it will happily tow anything I'd want it to, certainly at the 60mph legal towing speed!  In fact the 80kg all up V3000 + lightweight trailer barely registers as being on the back of the car (though the fuel consumption goes up a lot).

The torquiest car I ever drove was a 2 litre TDi Skoda Octavia estate which has a boot you could sleep in and would have towed a BUS; that will cost LESS to tax.

What's all this whinging about?

My only objection is that Mr Darling will probably spend the extra money on extra expenses for MPs and tax breaks for stock brokers!

After all this business of "we're killing the planet with all these gas guzzling cars, let's tax them off the road and save some tree", I was very suprised to find out on the news this morning that there is a place in Derbyshire that emits five times the CO2 that Heathrow airport does.

The peat bogs in the Peak District National Park

So it begs the question, do we really make that much difference in the great scheme of things? My guess would be no, so it's even more galling to see all these stealth taxes in the name of saving the environment

A, Wes.....it that your wifes car???

B, Above......Speed doesn't kill, inappropriate speed kills.  There are times when it is safe to do 90mph there are other times on the same strech of road when 30mph is too fast.  The governments insitence on using discretion free speed cameras rather than thinking Policeman to enforce traffic regulation is yet another shining example of their idiotic Stalinist agenda.  Gotta hit them targets!!

ps. Yes the reason for the National speed limit is the Oil shortage caused by the Egyptian Government closing the Suez Canal, can't wait till they sort that one out, it's been dragging on a bit now!! 

The point is that the polluter is already paying extra at the petrol station.  These stealth taxes packaged up as green initiatives are an outrageous method of stinging the tax payer - again.  Well at least we can help those poor MP's sort out another kitchen refit and TV.

The whole green issue is being cleverly spun to make people think that the CO2 issue is one that is killing the atmosphere.  Anyone that has done GCSE biology will undertand the importance of CO2 in the most basic of life cycles.  A zero carbon society will not work.

tack'ho's right. Speed kills in built up area's, but not on the open road. Out there mistakes kill - do you run up the back of someone on a motorway because you're driving too fast, or is it because you didn't leave enough room.

And yes, I have had to deal with the aftermath of large accidents, and in my experience you don't have to be going fast to create a right mess. The vast majority are caused by something other than excessive speed. The speed is just one of many factors.

Quite right, it was done to reduce fuel use in a time of shortage.

Lower speed limits = less fuel used.

Surely a good thing?

Taxing cars that use unnecessarily large amounts of fuel, discourages the purchase and use of these cars. Again, surely a good thing?

Cheeky bleeder!

I just have asperations of being a hair dresser!

I can see why labour keep getting into power! Most of the forum-tees are left wingers!!!  I work BLOODY hard for my money and i just don't see any of the benefits coming back to me, apart from a small increase in child allowance!  Has anyone else heard today about the parlamont expenses row? This is where your extra road tax is going politicians can claim back Mortgage payments and have there London pads fully fited out under expenses (ie they get a £750 budget for a TV.)

We live in a society where people are meant to have freedom of choice, if you want a fast car and can aford it then great! I have no problems with people that drive things like that paying for it! the problem i have is with normall Joe public like me having to pay an increased Tax for driving a bloody 1.8 mondeo!!  The problem is that the increased taxs arnt moving in line with vehicle manufacturers developments, car manf. are spending Billions trying to develop low Co2 output vehicles but it just cant happen over night!!!

Quite right, mistakes kill. BUT the faster you are going when you, or someone else, makes a mistake then the less likely it is you will be able to avoid the consequences of that mistake.

Speed may be "just one of many factors" but it is undeniably a factor.

It's not rocket science (or whatever it is clever people do these days).

So surely the job of any responsable government is to influence what they want in a manner which benefits society as a whole.

Tax 'em hard and they won't want gas guzzlers.

Tax 'em harder. Sooner or later they will "give a sh*t".

Now tax on beer.......that's another story. A tragedy of truly monumental proportions.

To the barricades my friends!!

Ah, but there is a middle (dare I say "third") way. (Runs for cover before lynching by antiBlairites).

This country has really quite lax tax laws/regulations for entrepreneurs/financial intitutions etc, many traditional left wingers would argue too lax, whilst at the same time using tax to influence social issues such as the environment. Plenty of entrapraneurs here, look in any London estate agents window. No Sweden Syndrome here.

Anyway.....

Back to sailing......

Are you sure about that?

A fair few opf my mates who work in The City / for themselves or who are successful are looking at leaving the country.

I pay so much tax and get so little for it I really wonder where all the money goes.

The NHS is falling to bits thanks to financial interfering by the govt.  They give masses of money and then force the NHS to spend it in a way that makes not sense at all, on staff they do not need and for meeting targets that make no sense at all.  People are leaving the NHS in drives (my wife works in the NHS and it is at breaking point).

The infrastructure of the country is falling to bits, we are overrun by people who do not work – not because there is no work, but because they cannot be bothered and can earn more “on the social”. 

The govt does not crack down on crime, caring more for the feelings of the robbers and scum than those who feel the effects of crime. 

I would say we have a fair sized section of the country that has gone beyond the “Sweden Syndrome” and have moved onto the “lazy fecker supported by the govt” syndrome. 

Labour have been very clever, they have created a sub-set of society who are totally dependent on this version of the labour ethos of govt. – Tax to the hilt and spend like water (and in this govt’s case waste as much money as possible).   

Would you stop voting for someone who gave you money for doing nothing?

For 155 days of the year, every penny earned by the average UK resident was taken to support government expenditures. In fact its not till 3rd June this year that you will start earning for yourself, everything you earn before that date goes to the government.

This figure includes taxation of all sorts and not just income tax.

Each of these little tax increases adds further to this figure, and the current government certainly seems to be of the opinion they can manipulate the population by increasing the tax burden in certain areas.

Hard but selective.

Quite the reverse it seems. 

Nice.

A little harsh perhaps. But nicely written. I suppose we all get like that after a while. I see a lot of benefit culture every day, often 2nd or 3rd generation who have no intention of ever working. There really isn't an answer.

Incidentally lots of sl*gging off the Poles on here. Not fair. All the ones I've met are hard working honest types just here to earn a wage doing stuff people here can't be arsed to do for the money. Good luck to them.

I do like a good "heated debate" (said in best Caroline Ahern voice).

Anyway.......

Like I said a while ago....

Back to sailing!

Come on you've got to be impressed by a labour govt that introduces a tax "cut" that means everyone on less than £17,500 is paying more tax, and people above that end up paying less.

I'm not complaining i'm one of the lucky ones above that amount!

I employ a Polish graduate - works his backside off, doing a skilled job. Had it advertised it for ages before he found us, and in that time no-one British had applied. That's what happens when govt policies balls up the country's technology capabilities and education systems...

OK, since the subject has been raised (and some!), I'm confused by this 'gas guzzler' stuff. Surely all modern cars burn petrol in stoichometrically efficient ways these days? So big cars are really only worse polluters because they use a greater amount of petrol for a given distance*. Surely we already have a tax that relates to the amount of CO2 put into the atmosphere - this relates primarily to the actual quantity of fuel consumed and is called fuel duty! Why tax pure ownership of a vehicle when it only actually pollutes according to the amount it is used?

This seems so obvious to me, so what is it that I'm missing..??

* edit: cos the bands appear to be measured in g/km, not g/l

I am 16 yet I can still see how stupid benefits are getting.. Its just an easy option for people who are lazy (obviously this isn't the case for all, but I bet it is for a lot..)

Also this might seem slightly harsh but I really don't think imigrants EU or not should be given benefits and free housing... They are just coming in and milking it?

I don't claim to know anything about politics, but it doesn't take much of a brain to see the problems with the benefit/immigration system, slightly worrying when 16 year olds can see that yet the Prime Minister and other government people don't seem to!!

I was going to say something else yet I can't remember what . If I think of it again and it is not too harsh I will say it .

Just a idea on school run mums,

If you have to drive your kids to school then the school is not local to you & as such you should look for a more local school,That hopfully would sort out the problem!

Like jeffer`s i also have a school at the end of the road & they abandon their cars all over the place,So when an old boy was driving at about 15 MPH through the parked cars when one of the kids run out & he stopped in time but was very upset,Then the mum of the kid turn up with her mates & blamed him for nearly knocking her kid over.

Sumthing not right there,

Please correct me if I am wrong but I was not aware the migrants from inside the EU were able to claim benefits in the UK without citizenship which from what I have heard from a foreign member of my family is pretty hard to come buy. It does depend on what you mean by benefits, for instance the NHS is a public good and in my opinion it should be open to working migrants from the EU.

Did say I don't know much about politics . Your are probably right though.

I meant benefits as in umemployeed and free council housing.

Even if the NHS is pretty rubbish we are lucky to have it, and yea that should be open to migrants but they pay taxes still don't they? So they should be allowed it. If they work like most migrants do, and pay their taxes, of cause they should have it.

I reckon if your just one of the lazy buggers, that has a free house, gets weakly money from the government for sitting on their arse all day and don't pay taxes, now they shouldn't be allowed to use the NHS... Do nothing all day, get fat and then when your diabetic get free health care for being a waster milking the government.. Fair enough if they actually try to get work, but probably most on the doll want to be and have no intention of finding a job.. Even when perfectly capable of it.

If  teenagers can get full time jobs over the Summer etc surely they should be able to so what is stopping them??

Good point, I forgot most of them smoke cigerettes or some other substances.. Habits of cause funded by the dole, putting them into those convenient hospitals that they didn't have to pay for

i don't understand how it doesn't get boring.. Surely spending all your money on cigerettes, drink and other substances, living in some nasty council flat with no hobbies gets pretty dull!!!

why would they be bored when they have day time tv lol

Let's face it we've got to do something to get those big 4x4s off the road.  They are gross and a pain for everybody else. Have you tried to park next to them in a multi story or met one coming down a narrow country lane and have you noticed how they wobble across two lanes when going around roundabouts.  Most of them are hopeless off road - if you want something effective off road then use a Landrover.

I love a good 4x4 when crossing deserts, fording rivers and exploring logging tracks, but they are inapproprite on tarmac and especially on our crowded roads.  I think some people drive them in the miss-guided idea that they are safer however they don't stop as quick as a modern car and having a high centre of gravity they topple over more easily. 

Road tax is probably the best way to discourage them since this will not affect farmers very much since they drive effective 4x4s like landrovers which with a 2.5ltr diesel is economical and can better any other 4x4 when off the road.

I used to trail a Scorpion all over the country with a 600cc 35bhp car - that was pushing it, but possible.  I now drive a 80bhp lightwieght car which copes very well with a 4000 which is a heavy boat.  I once trailed the 4000 non stop to Garda in less than a day - no problem with 97bhp.  Big 4x4s are rarely justified.

Spoken like a true lefty

You are wrong as long as you are a citizen of an EU country you can qualify for residential benefits including Health Service. There have even been instances recently of eastern European migrants claiming child benefit for children that they have back in there father county!!!

Its all so corrupt it stinks!

Actually he has a point.  What we now have in this country is an very materialistic society where we idolise the idol rich.  A lot of people who don't have a lot believe they have a right to it but don't see that hard work and graft is the way to achieve it.  In short to some extent many of us now want something for nothing.  Can anyone here really imagine living the same life as a miner at the turn of the century when there was virtually no social mobility.  Until hard work, commitment and resposibilty are placed higher on the agenda than rights and social equality then this will continue to perpetuate.  I no more blame someone bought up on a sink estate for choosing the easy option (giro/drug dealing etc) than I blame someone living in a shack in Africa for wanting to get into this country.  It is human nature.

Mind you despite what the Daily Mail would have us believe the majority of people in the country a law abiding hard work tax paying folk.

upping prices p***es everyone off if they really wanted 4x4s off the road just introduce a law to ban them they have for everything else, speed as much as it is plastered about doesnt kill its bad driving at the end of the day.

i'd love to use my car less save the planet all that perhaps i should move closer to work but i cant why as the labour governemnt have held interest rates low which has allowed irresponsible lending meaning house prices have gone through the roof, so now i cant afford a house and soon i wont be able to run my car.

job done i think where do i sign for the dole???

the governement needs the taxes to pay off the northern rock fiasco i live in newcastle and if a bank goes bust it goes bust end of shoudlnt be given help as they were careless dont remeber seeing rover get the same treatment etc

END of the DAY we live in rip off britain i cant call it great anymore as its been spoilt by years of abuse in all areas of governement

rant over