I need some advice!!!!

I am looking to buy a second hand dinghy to use in Poole harbour. I have a daughter who will be 3 in the spring and 1 year old twins. i would like to get the toddler on the water this year, however, will also be looking to get the twins out next year or the one after. When we are all out there will be 5 of us incl the missus. I am looking for a boat to meet our needs, that I can sail single handed and will be suitable for with the kids. I would like the option of a spinnaker for when i have an extra set of hands or am able to sail without the kids but have a crew. I'm also thinking that with young kids, something that has a transon, or that I can fit a transom to, so that I can have a small outboard for safety would be ideal. I am also looking for something that will have a bit of life (for its size), and is not an old barge - i think i may be asking the impossible!!!! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

thanks!!!

Laser 2000 or RS 200 possibly? The 2000 is the barge of the two. I take it you don't mean for the toddlers to sail?

Or go for a real tank like a Stratos (although not sure if that could be done single handed).

I can do the 2000 single handed, its an effort to right though! not tryed with the RS.

If you are after a boat that they wont fall out of then a Wayfarer may be suitable as it has more a seating arrangement for the younger ones and is really safe and "barge" like. They do have kites/spinnakers for that extra sail area.

The Laser Stratos is a more modern cruiser boat that has the facility to take families and offer a safe seating, unlikely to tip but can go over if the enevitable happens.

The RS Vision is a more tippy boat but made of "plastic" can be beached if required.

Of the above, the RS can't be fitted with a small outboard, if I was after one, I recon the Stratos will provide more a "Thrill" factor for the family and when with another adult. All 3 of the above are used as teaching boats at RYA centres.

Laser do demo weekends so you could try out the boats (RS probably do something similar)

I know Laser do as there often at Rutland (think they do them in other places too)

Free I think and you get a reasonable amount of time out (I think!)

Chris - You can't fit 5 people in a 200, it will be a squeeze. Even a L 2000 will be pushing it.

We have 2 Stratos' that are used for teaching/joy riding our cadets in the Summer. They prefer that boat over the Comet Trio or Wayfarer we have out.

RS have a Demo centre located off the M4 motorway. Laser also do them as Chris said but you may find someone more local or at the Sail Laser centre in WPNSA.

Any further questions just ask.

Edit - The Laser Stratos can be sailed single handed if conditions are right. With a reefing Main and furling Jib, make it easy to handle. It is just a big Laser (Standard rig). The only downside to any of the larger boats is their landbased weight.

Wayfarers are popular in Poole harbour:

http://www.parkstonewayfarers.org.uk/pyc-main.shtml - http://www.parkstonewayfarers.org.uk/pyc-main.shtml

They're a friendly lot and will certainly fix you up with a go if you get in touch.

Certainly one of the safest boats around (except the 'World' version which turtles enthusiastically), and capable of embarassing boy-racers in some conditions. nice feel on the helm, too.

Otherwise, how about a Miracle? - much lighter to manhandle on land but still very stable. Roomy for its size; not quick but feels lively.

All above good comments.....I have a Stratos (not a tank, great fun in heavy weather...... I enjoy sailing it just as much as my ISO !) and it is great for the family. You will probably get one for about £4500  - £6000. Keel version extra but much more stable. Probably the most flexible of the lot but is as heavy as a wayfarer but this has never caused me a great problem(reasonable wayfarer would cost less). L2000 good but smaller and roughly as expensive second hand (better attendance at Class Association events), Vision about same size as the 2000 and having sailed one seems quite good for what it is. Omega........not my personal favourite as we have them for our Youth section and don't really let them out in anything above a F4.

Have a test sail.....see what local clubs sail but any of the above would suit main thing is get out on the water !

Yes you are right about the engine, it can be stored in the "optional extra's" box. I would like to say I have sailed one, but Laser have one on test at my sailing centre but its broken (by the guy who delivered it). I hope to report back soon!

David M Wood did ask for a second hand boat, so either the L2000 or the Stratos. The 2000 been ok for up to 4 people, the Stratos can take 6 easily. Best bet, see what is around, go for a sail and then see what the budget/availablility is like when your ready to purchase.

Laser 16 would be a good choice and they are starting to really come down in price! They are well built stable carry at least 6 people and bloody good at what they do!

Having spent most of my summer working out in greece last year, we had a Bahia. They were good training boats, and pretty robust, but essentially are a big Vago, and quite heavy if trying to carry them over break water, took a good 6 people, while a 500 could b done with 3.

i'd say go for the bahia or the vision just as they are both quite stable.

but as i've actually sailed the bahia in a few different windstrengths i'd say that it is probably a good option for you.

Adam

How about a Wanderer?  We bought ours with stability in mind and the fact that it can be sailed, rowed and motored (and didn't weigh as much as a Wayfarer)

We got ours from Hartley Laminates, who have some great deals and are a good family type company to deal with.

Couple of useful links:

http://www.hartleylaminates.co.uk/ - http://www.hartleylaminates.co.uk/

http://www.wanderer.org.uk/ - http://www.wanderer.org.uk/

Good luck in finding your ideal boat

stratos are good family boat with lots of room and a centre console seat. easy to right to, with the flooding tank system

although expensive in my opinion they represent good value for money alot of boat for the money.

the laser 16 is a good buy but rarely come on the market but in my opinion would say the stratos would be perfect, if not a little on the heavy side.  But depend on where you are launching from really.

Sorry to rain on the parade but I just wouldn't take a toddler on a dinghy.  Foolhardy IMO but if you really want to then a Stratos Keel would be my bet. But how exactly are you going to ensure the safety of your children? I know you can get life jackets for children but how then to split yourself between sailing the boat and supervising the children?

Wait til they are a bit older, please. 5 or 6

Ditto.

When you do start you'd be better off with a small keelboat. Lots of good small keelboats around second hand, many are cheaper than dinghies, eg a reasonable leisure 17 for under £2000. I've just sold my Hunter Medina for £3500, something like that would be better than a dinghy, also ideal for Poole harbour and trips out to Studland etc.

thank you for all of your replies - i did not really expect such a large number of helpful replies.

I take on board what people are saying regarding taking a toddler on board, however, the majority of the time I anticipate it being a 2 adult to 1 child ratio, certainly for at least the next few years. I do not think the age as such is the issue, but rather the supervision ratio - I am sure many of us started helmimg for ourselves at the age of 4 or so in an oppie?

I would ideally like a small keelboat, and that is where my train of thought started, however the appeal of a dinghy is the fact that with public slipways in Poole Harbour, I can store a dinghy at home, tow it, launch it, and be sailing with minimal preparation time. I cannot justify paying for a mooring with the amount of time I anticipate being able to use it over the next few years, until they are all a bit older. Safety is the reason I thought a large dinghy with an outboard and VHF might be an appropriate solution.

Do people still think I am having reckless thoughts, or am barking up completely the wrong tree? At the moment I am thinking Wayfarer, Stratos might be the best solution but am very keen to hear your further views.

Thanks again

Stratos Keel has the raising keel - http://www.lasersailing.com/disp/uk/keel/introduction?i=90d4cc3afdbdc3623df8e02844b7547e - Web address here

Whereas the Wayfarer is a centreboard.

Take a look, but you might have to wait for a Keel version of the Laser Stratos to come onto the S/H market.

Plenty of trailer-sailor boats out there on the SH market.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/15-Trailer-Sailer-Sailing-Boat-Trailer-and-Outboard_W0QQitemZ170191096677QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/15-Trailer-Sailer-Sailing-Boat-Trailer -and-Outboard_W0QQitemZ170191096677QQihZ007QQcategoryZ1297QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This would give shelter when it rains, room for both a chemical toilet and a coolbox and berths for a snooze if it's a long day. Great for "adventuring" round Poole harbour.

I've been taking my children out sailing since they were tiny, on the right day, and they loved it. Now 7 and 5, they are very confident in and around boats, and are looking forward to the weather warming up. You would have to take more care on poole harbour than you would on a lake, but I can safely say there are far fewer accidents involving children in sailing than there are at Wacky Warehouse play areas. Or in the car getting them to the play area/sailing club.

Has anyone got figures showing how many deaths/injuries have happened to toddles when sailing with their parents in sheltered waters?

All of the above appeals hugely - particularly for the comfort of the kids - the last thing I want to do is put them off by getting cold and wet etc. However it comes back to the issue of being able to slip it in on a public slipway, and the set-up/pack-down time.

Can anyone advise on this - the difference in time it would realistically take to be sailing a boat such as a stratos from arrival at slipway compared with a trailer sailor.

Thanks once again

[I've been taking my children out sailing since they were tiny, on the right day, and they loved it. Now 7 and 5, they are very confident in and around boats

This is what I hope to achieve - I do want to buy a bigger boat (30ft ish) in 5-10 years time, and want them to be comfortable, confident and happy afloat/

Surely with all the hassle and cost of trailing and slip fees, wouldn't you be better off leaving your boat at a club? Although there are waiting lists at some clubs on Poole Harbour, if you join an existing fleet, like the Wayfarers at Parkstone, I think you get in pretty quickly.

On the safety issue, yes that woud rule out the otherwise worthy 2000 for me - poor capsize performance, but Wayfarers have sailed to Iceland and, like the Stratos are readily reefed. There's a wealth of cruising experience in the class:

http://www.wayfarer.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=9&Itemid=120 - http://www.wayfarer.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content& task=blogsection&id=9&Itemid=120

and

http://www.wayfarer.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=e08cf0459f50e9ddd908456f727fae90 - http://www.wayfarer.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=e 08cf0459f50e9ddd908456f727fae90

We have trailed/launched our Stratos (centreboard) at lots of different locations 30 - 45 minutes to rig, pack the picnic and launch. I won't go into the advantages/disadvantages re dinghy/keelboat as I prefer dinghy sailing but the Stratos (or Wayfarer) is a good compromise especially with the keel version (as well as 'performance' with a small 'p' if you want it). Like any sport there are risks in sailing but there is no reason a well prepared 'cruise' in sheltered waters like Poole should be any more risky than driving to the coast down the motorway ! Like most things always plan ahead, plan for contingencies (and carry a good anchor and chain !). I have taken my Stratos out in all weathers (not suggesting you do with a young family) and it has really looked after us . If you have an outboard (I have'nt, just good paddles) you have your extra safety factor.

Why not start off inland to get a feel for it for a year or so whilst the kids are very young ? I am sure they will enjoy it and you can come in very easily when they start getting bored/cold. Good point about having two of you who can sail we always do .

In terms of weight Stratos/Wayfarer about 180 kgs and the Stratos Keel 280kgs which you need to consider when pulling up and down slipways. I can do this with my wife on most slipways but the keel version will probably require the winch......good luck keelboat or dinghy sailing .........