Forgiving trapeze boat...?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3425
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 5:17pm
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Topic: Forgiving trapeze boat...?
Posted By: Gray Daze
Subject: Forgiving trapeze boat...?
Date Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 8:00pm
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Hi again. Lately i have been looking for a boat the either has asymmetric or symmetric spinnakers. It'd be nice if it was fairly forgiving and a be good trainer for something like an RS800 (hopefully future boat). We only weigh about 115 - 120 kgs together. Id be sailing this with my son aswel. Smallish lake with the possibility of the tide on some weekends. Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated |
Replies:
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 8:17pm
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Spice. Twin wire, nice large kite, pretty speedy when the wind gets up, but we were sailing it today in about 20 knts ( gusting more ... ) with about 120kg all up. Only capsised once because the helm dropped the tiller. ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 8:26pm
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I suggest you avoid extinct classes!
I imagine that RS would be pushing you in the direction of their RS500. |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 8:46pm
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But Jim, Its perfect for what they want. To get the hang of twin wiring, why not sail a boat with 2 wires, and you can get the basics sorted. Who cares if its a dead class, its cheap to get into, and with two wires, its closer to the 800 they want to get into. £1800 for a Spice, Vs £5k ++ for a 500. ( Half the boat for over double the price ) Wont matter so much if you go through the Spice's main, as it wont push the value down any more if its been repaired. Patches on a 500 main will drop the price a lot! ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 8:53pm
I wouldn't say half the boat  They are very different boats in lots of ways. It's like compairing the spice to a laser 3000------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 23 Sep 07 at 9:01pm
Half the wires, and half the kite area ... Close enough to half the boat 
------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 9:19am
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Its got to be the buzz!!!!!!!!!! Perfect weight range, forgiving boat. Of course i am slightly biased. ------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk">  BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 3:17pm
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500/ V3000 from me aswell. Both good boats and the v3000 has been very well developed from the L3000. Avoid the spice like the plague, really horrible boats and no matter what you pay for one you'll struggle to sell it and loose money. Not to forget theyre horrible! ------------- |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 4:12pm
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i would have to say rs500 if you have the money and want a racing circuit to go with it/ or a 3000 would do. but really you need to get a shortlist of boats that are nearest to what you need and test them... not just once but a few times to make sure it is the boat for you. p.s i know if i say Spice i will get slaughtered by people on the forum... however people at bough beach sailing club saw how much fun i was having at the weekend in it, not swimming like another twin wire boat there ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 5:17pm
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As far as symmetric spinnakers go, for light weights the Fireball, 420 or Laser 2 will do the job. You can spend anything from £100 to several thousand on any of them, but you will generally get what you pay for. Mid to high hundreds will get you something which might not be up to speed but which will give you a good platform for learning without too much breaking. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Gray Daze
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 6:47pm
| Wouldnt the fireball be a bit overpowered?? And i did forget to include the price range, it about £3500 - £4500. I was keen on the 3000, does anyone know the minimum weight range and also how are these on handicap? |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 7:05pm
May be built like a rock, but it sure goes like stink. It can be sailed in a lot of wind with just one wire, or both, It doesnt capsise almost every time you gybe ( *cough* Like someone ... ) and is basically guarenteed to come back in one peice .. no matter WHAT you do to it! It may also be old, It may not cost a lot, It may be "slow" in some peoples eyes ( But most of those people have either never sailed one, or have only ever sailed "fast" boats ( I14 / Cherubs or Int Canoes / Other generic development classes ) And yes. We had a lot of people over the weekend basically asking to go for a sail on the Spice ( "I might have to have a go on that later or tomorow" etc etc ) Fireball ... Can be powerful, But very easily depowered. You can get a decent "Practice" one for about £750 .. Maybe £1500 if you want a decent GRP one. ( But of course, Wood all the way!! ) £4k would probably get you an old Winder ( Kevlar / Foam I beleive ) hull. Either way, Try boats, See what works. Or wait til the Dinghy Show, and see all the boats up close and personal. Pull ropes, Fiddle with stuff .. Thats what they are there for! ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 9:22pm
Ha ha well. James and james if you could keep a 14 upright with a scratch crew and 20+ knots of gusty and shifty BBSC breeze then id shake ur hand . Oh ps guys only two of the capsises were my fault the rest were crew based with him cleating the F***ing jib out of the tack------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 10:03pm
| I bet half the people knocking the Spice haven't sailed one - they're as rare as hen's teeth. They sound like a very good introduction to twin wiring although I doubt they'd be fast enough to be much of an introduction to apparent wind sailing. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 10:22pm
Which is all you need to know really... Topper could hardly give them away, and its no suprise. |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 24 Sep 07 at 10:40pm
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Come on then Jim, name something that can be picked up cheaply as a twin wire starter boat and WAS NOT a total flop after launch? ( So exclude the RS800 ) 12 ft skiffs are rare as hens teeth over here ... Does that mean they are no good, and noone should sail them? Cherubs? Nuff said. RS800 - The target not the one to learn in. I would suggest a 5k, but you have to have quite a bit of lard to sail one with any degree of success. Would set them up right for the racks though. ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 25 Sep 07 at 12:26am
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i'm not sure that 12ft skiffs and 5ks should ever be discribed as starter boats, and although Cherubs are not a massive class they should hardly be called unsusseful! The Spice was a bit of a dog and although they are now a cheep bang for the money they will never be great boats. Its is allways going to be hard to produce a good learner twin trap boat as the basic skills are not massivly hard to get to grips with if you have some good background experence. I am regualy told that the 49er is not a fantasticaly hard boat to sail in the right condistions but very hard to sail fast. ------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 25 Sep 07 at 4:46pm
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We have teams between 100-150kg crew weight in the 3000 fleet. 120 is about optimal, i'd guess, but frankly it depends upon the conditions. I'm 65kg and usually have a <60kg crew; when I sail with heavier crews I have much more power but go no faster- equally, when the wind drops we don't seem to lose much - weight placement is far more important than absolute weight. With a 55kg crew the boat feels to have no power but goes just as fast even when i'm spilling wind like mad - the lower drag matches the lower power, apparently. I wouldn't write off the Laser 3000 if I were you, i've had both that and now the V, and have to say that while there are times when the V is lightning-fast, over all conditions and courses the difference is not so great - my club PY results this season on 1010 with the V3k have been absolutely no better than 1030 with the L3k. Also, you can do a lot now within the rules to update an L3k for very little cost. If you're anywhere near Draycote (Rugby/Coventry) this weekend, we are having a 'Try a 3000' session after racing on the Saturday (of our Nationals). You'll be able to see the whole range from unmodified L3k's through to V3k's. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 25 Sep 07 at 6:35pm
Id never sailed a twin wire boat before i bought the 14! Would be a lot easier to sail a boat with a bit more rag and be able to twin in the lighter stages of the wind range. And not have to wait till it was 20 knots to get 15.3 mph Cheers, Alex ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 25 Sep 07 at 9:22pm
I wasn't gonna say anything but you did set him off guys you know what he's like  ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: FireballNeil
Date Posted: 25 Sep 07 at 9:36pm
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£2000 would get you a very competitive composite winder Fireball, with all the glamour of wood and the performance of epoxy! And you can sail it in almost any wind with an all up of around 18 stone. |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 26 Sep 07 at 1:32pm
I'll look out for you, but I'm afraid I'll have my hands full dishing out free polos shirts, meeting and greeting - it'll probably be a struggle to get rigged in time! ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |