A near incident recently has been bothering me for a while and I wonder if you could give an opinion? I was close-hauled on starboard approaching the port lay-line of a starboard rounding windward mark more than 10 boatlengths from the mark. There was one boat about 2-3 boatlengths to leeward and slightly ahead, it was about f3 so I was just on the wire. As I was thinking about tacking, the boat to leeward shouted 'Tacking for the mark' and immediately tacked. As it happened I tacked at the same time and they ended up directly astern.
 
However if it had been any windier I would have sailed on for another boatlength or 2 before tacking so I could free off a bit and plane upwind. In this instance they would have hit me or I would have to crash-tack to avoid them probably capsizing to windward. I had never heard this call before but have subsequently heard it again at least once indicating that this is likely to happen again.
 
My rules knowledge may not be fantastic but I don't believe the other boat has any rights in this situation at all as I am on starboard and can tack when I want (or not at all) with no 'proper course' to windward.

Opinions please.

I agree - he cannot tack & expect you to keep clear. He's now on port and as such the 'give way' boat.

To play devil's advocate a bit, his hail could have been 'informative' just to let you know what he was doing, and if you hadn't tacked he could / would have ducked your transom. Or, the hail might have been speculative - to see what your response was...

My rulebook is out of date, however, so I could be wrong - it has been known

The other time I heard it (2 different boats) they definitely thought this gave them right of way as there was a near collision and a lot of shouting afterwards. I'm wondering if this is a local misinterpretation which has spread throughout the (sometimes quite insular) club.

No, I don't think they had any rights either.

As leeward they are right-of way boat until they pass head to wind, at which point you have the rights. They are not permitted to tack "into you". Unless the boat could carry its way at a head to wind position to luff you from 2 boat lengths away, I cannot see how they would have been entitled to call anything on you.

In windward/leeward courses this is the reason to round the bottom mark nice and tight because even if you are slightly behind a boat, if he is lower than you you can control when he tacks.

No rights at all. 

This is the reason that generally stb mark roundings are not a good idea as you have people tacking onto port to round it and loose rights.  But this is the reason they are used in match racing.

But as stated above, it could be an"information" hail, but still carries not weight in the rules.  The person hailing this needs their rule knowledge correcting PDQ.

And there was me thinking that you had to hold your course as a stb boat! My understanding is that although Port has to give way to stb... stb has to hold her course (no deviation) unless advoiding a collision. Been in many a protest room where port has argued that stb has altered course therefore causing the collision.

Think you could be right there!!!

Gordon I think you maybe getting confused with........ if a boat aquires right of way through her own actions, the other boat is entitled to space to keep clear.

As both boats are on stb in this case a tack onto port means that the boat as you state having gone through head to wind has to give way to the stb boat. Any deviation from stbs course would constitute as an alteration of course would mean that port has an argument that she had ample room to keep clear, however the actions of the stb boat meant that this was impossible and stb had altered course thus causing the collision. If I remember both boats get dsq.

I think that would be completely over the top ... the guy is just informing the right of way boat of his actions, he may have inteneded to tack then duck ...

I can't see anything unsporting in telling someone in advance what you are about to do ... quite helpful really ...

Sorry Rick I disagree.

From the information we have been given, he hails and tacks immediatley. Thus putting the stb boat in a position that a collision is more than probable even if he did intend on ducking stb transom. Whilst a hail helps to clear a situation up. The hail given is not in accordance with the rules, although before anyone says anything I know a hail is not required, it does help, and sounds as if it is given with the thought that this is a valid hail and he has a right to hail and tack and stb has to give way.

I am not commenting on the details of the boat on boat situation as we can't tell the facts on that ... I was just commenting that the hail is not a rule 2/69 issue IMHO

That is a big if ... seems to me the other bloke was just informing another boat of a change of course he was about to go ahead with ... I don't think there is any deliberate intention to cheat ...

Sorry Gordon......Isn't that what I said? Oh well Was at the office and hadn't got the rule book next to me!!!!!

Rick don't think its a big IF in this case.... from what has been posted it would appear that club members think that this is a valid shout.this being the 2nd incident at the same club. In my opinion 1 trip in the protest room tends to sort these things out esp in the bar after!!!!

Thanks everyone, I think the original question has been answered and we are now into a different discussion. I believe the other helm was ignorant of the rules rather than blatantly cheating or giving a courtesy call.

As a matter of interest I was recently on port, to leeward and ahead of another port tacker going upwind, it was quite windy so gave a courtesy call when tacking as I was in their blind spot and didn't fancy getting a 200 pole in the head as I apeared from behind their jib. They seemed baffled by this call as I was "nowhere near the layline". This is why I think there is a local view that tacking for the layline somehow changes obligations.

OK I have another one for you.

2 boats both on starboard approaching the gybe mark. The inside boat has an overlap and is entitled to water. Let's say it is blowing a good force 5 to 6 and gybing could be fun.

How long can the inside boat with water rights hold off their gybe, so that they can pick their moment? Or perhaps their gybing technique is not so nimble as the outside boat, can the outside boat claim they gave enough water and it was the other person's less skillful sailing that caused a collision?

Does it make any difference or not if a hail was made for water by the inside boat?

I'm no expert on this one but I doubt a protest committee would have much sympathy with an inside boat that claimed it was too windy to gybe immediately at the mark.

I've always believed that if you want to poke your nose inside on a windy gybe mark you'd better accept the consequences of a big gust & just get yourself through the gybe.

If you want room to gybe or tack round at your leisure, take the outside track.

Sailing an outside boat 50 yards downwind from the mark claiming that the gust made it impossible for you to execute the gybe doesn't seem like a valid defence to me.

If I was the outside boat wanting to get on with my race I'd certainly be unimpressed!

If I were the outside boat and it was that windy I would ask the inside boat if they intend to gybe or granny as it could be argued that the more seaman like method of getting around the mark is to granny!

In any case I would keep well clear as if you put pressure on them it may precipitate a capsize, at best making the mark a lot wider and at worst ending your race by capsizing on top of you.

The words "seaman-like" applied to mark rounding disappeared from the rules several versions ago.

I think 18.4 makes it pretty clear that if you are inside you need to gybe at the mark or capsize trying.

"When an inside overlapped right-of-way boat must gybe at a mark or obstruction to sail her proper course, until she gybes she shall sail no farther from the mark or obstruction than needed to sail that course."

In this case surely you don't gybe to sail you proper course so the rule isn't applied.

if you've been overlapped for that length of time you should be able to manouvre yourself to a degree to get the best angle of attack, consider a slightly wider entrance  and narrow exit hopefully coming out inside the inner boat. But not going to teach you to sail!!!

However once inside the 2 boat lengths. In my opinion and I would guess 99.9% of protest rooms then the inside boat is almost forced to gybe. remembering that it is up to him to proove that the outer boat failed to give enough room.

Stuart is getting to the heart of this one -

If inside does not gybe then its for outside to prove he took too much room.

If outside closes in and there is contact inside would need to provide the proof that there was not enough room.

In the conditions described it is in everybody's interest to sail it clean due to risk of capsize and collision.