Hmm, this looks familiar......
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3313
Printed Date: 19 Aug 25 at 6:05am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Hmm, this looks familiar......
Posted By: Ross
Subject: Hmm, this looks familiar......
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 12:41am
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http://www.gohoot.com/about.html ------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Replies:
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 8:38am
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That looks really good, shame about the name, they Americans always seem to spoil it ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 8:46am
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Better name than RS600... ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 8:46am
Hull weight 50lbs, fully rigged weight 140lbs 
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Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 10:43am
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Flippin eck ! ------------- Wanna learn to Ski - PM me.. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 10:57am
interesting take on the spelling of jibe as well... 
looks interesting though, sort of Blaze meets RS600 type of thing but I
like their drive for simplicity... could make it relatively easy to
spread production outside of US------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Inland sea
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 11:10am
| I'd put money on the fact that its a bare hull without wings etc. Those wings look kinda big ... what do you think if they had an aerofoil section .... could it fly? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 2:22pm
| They've got an expatriate Brit Mothie in the development team now, so a reasonable focus on weight... |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 2:28pm
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Yep - stick a T-foil on and make it a bladerider for Fatties!
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 2:58pm
RS300 area possibly, most likely quicker, but it will eat up a blaze and spit out the pieces.. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 3:41pm
Probably quicker than a Blaze but I wouldn't say spit out the pieces, a Blaze is a damn quick boat in most winds (and easy to sail too). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 4:42pm
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Yeah it would make an intersting race - and only face to face would really tell. Sail area is same as 300, IC, and Finn! But how different is the rig. It looks more up to date and therefore faster - but I had a look at their news board and they been experimenting (and rejected) with stretchy leach panels from windsurfers to control gust response. So they may have a problem in that area. The mast looks stayed so the kind of flexible (inc sideways) mast that makes the 300 sailable is probably not available to them (and if it was that fat top would really drive them doen the mine downwind. Similar weight too. Cimbine that with monster wings which are not built in to the hull shape like the 300 and it's going to be really hard to sail (there is soem serious angle in those wings!), and heel is potentially going to be terminal. Finally that very skiffy low rocker hull shape is going to be quite sticky in light airs - the harder turn (is it a chine?) will make it more directional stable than the 300. So someone import one and we'll have a race! And better yet stick a T-foil on it, then lower the wings a bit since you'll be riding higher - and I'll have one as a blasting machine when I'm not 300 racing. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 5:01pm
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bet tacking it is a right s%d.... very little rocker, fully battened sail on bendy stick... hmm stuck in irons in a blow?
------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 6:42pm
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Not many 'spit out the pieces' of the Blaze on speed unless they are a bit exotic and consequently less easy to sail for the majority. Often a bit of 'giant slaying' is more the order ! The 300 is faster, but only when sailed by a few of the more capable minority who sail them. In practice the Blaze and the 300 are not far off each other in any real wind. (see 'speed freaks' etc) However the Hoot will be considerably faster than both when sorted is my feeling, but then you could just jump on a fairly average board and go faster still with a lot less drama - and it would go on the roofrack even more easily. It looks like a board rig on a skiffish hull and it's an interesting design - let's see a few over here. If you want to go real fast it's simple - low drag, enough sail and keep it light and wrapped up in a good balanced design. But that does not make it accesible to the majority necessarily. All boats mentioned are compromises of design and performance and 'ease' - you pays your money and makes a choice. The Laser, Solo, Contender etc are great boats, but not because of their speed relative to their competition .... but a hell of a lot of people sail them. Blaze '720' |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 7:38pm
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Better to just build yourself a wide moth, then you will actually get a light weight boat! 40 kilos all up is easily attainable for a boat of those proportions, and even adding gelcoat into the mix should put it in the 50kilo range - not sure where it gains that weight... In practice the PY will show us the average, why is the blaze nearly 50 points slower than a 300? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 8:20pm
If you believe that figure the you need your head examined... We've quite clearly established that its total b******s |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 9:12pm
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Jim - Our long standing invitation to you actually try a Blaze sometime rather than press your 'opinion' about the boat on the rest of us based on stands. What exactly do you base your own 'claims' on regarding relative merits of various classes and speeds on ? Rather looks like they cannot be substanciated to me either and not to be taken too seriously without a bit of a yacht around in all these classes yourself first. The freaks thing is a bit of fun of course - but there are some real numbers out based over longer distances this time rather than 'spot' speeds. The figues can be regarded as more reliable ..... in my opinion. Last year a 300 was claimed to have exceeded 23 kn or something like it from memory - 'knocked' at the time but not totally impossible over short bursts. (I have owned and raced them myself note) We have never claimed the Blaze is as fast or can be faster than a 300 - just fastish and easier to sail - and that's not inconsistent to the PN difference either though neither boat gets anywhere these speeds bar in the most exceptional conditions. Blaze 720 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 9:37pm
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I've sailed a Blaze thanks. Its an OK moderate performance boat if you like that sort of thing, and there's nothing wrong with moderate performance boats, which after all are what the vast majority of sailors choose to sail.
But making comparisons with the Hoot or the 300, which are a quite different game, does it no favours at all. As it happens I didn't think the RS300 speed had a lot of credibility either, it felt like a glitch, but at least it wasn't changing in height 60 feet or more at a time like that comical "Blaze" trace. |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 9:49pm
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It looks like a less bizarre version of the mx-ray without the best bit - the asymmetric. |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 23 Aug 07 at 10:01pm
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Jim - I hate to say it but I think we are nearly agreeing..... the PN differences are only about 4% and the Blaze is not claimed in this corner to be as fast as the 300 - the Hoot will be a lot faster than both in my opinion, you seem to think this might be marginal relative to the 300 and that's about it ! In any macho drag race the simple sailboard would wipe them all. But I'm still not convinced you've sailed a competive or sorted Blaze so the invitation stands. When / how exactly did you get to try one ? Loan boat available for the next event - yours for the asking. Blaze 720 |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 9:23am
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Yes - those 60ft height differences indicate that the GPS did not have a proper fix in 4 dimensions (the fourth is the time signal) and therefore the positions can not be trusted.
Blaze 720 - I think you should come and race a 300 again. You will find that there are many more who have mastered the boat, not just a select few. This is shown by the extremelt tight tactical racing. As for the Hoot who knows how quick it would be. Make it light and low drag is the key as somebody said - but below planing speeds that is not a low drag hull shape, and it sure isn't light (except in the US market!). Absolute speed it will probably see off all the 10sqm types and the Blaze once the breeze is vaguely up, excepting perhaps a conventional IC, but round the course woul be very interesting - running will be tough with a stayed rig, and handling could be tricky. We may never know. Anybody got an idea what the imported cost would be $7000 may not be very much - but then you've got to ship and pay duties? Oh - personally I could not be bothered with all that wings on wings off crap |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 10:02am
As a matter of interest, if you define 25lbs lighter than an RS300 as "sure isn't light" then what, apart from an International Moth, would you consider to be light? |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 11:08am
Then leave them on! |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 1:51pm
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JimC - There's plenty of space to knock down the weight of the 300 and its built as a proper hull without the weight savings you can get if you build wings right. Fot the Hooters moth sylee structures may not be an option - but they could push it down for sure. Matt |
Posted By: sargesail
Date Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 2:01pm
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For example the single biggest improvement to the 300 would be a carbon boom - saving a lot of weight. |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 24 Aug 07 at 5:52pm
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Sagresail Fully agree about the 300 boom - its not in keeping with the rest of the boat IMHO and would be a quick swop-out that many might go for. We have had a carbon boom for years and have experimented with two carbon sticks recently. The general view was that while the carbo boom more than earns its keep a carbon mast does not represent equal benefit for the money in relative terms so was not adopted. The weight saving (of a carbon boom) is worth having but the major benefit we found was in high wind gybing and in very light winds when the reduced weight on the sail allowed the leech to be a bit more open. The other benefit of a carbon boom is that if it ever does clunk you it hurts less !! Blaze 720 |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 25 Aug 07 at 7:51pm
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I met the guy that hit "20" knots on the speed freaks league he seemed in some doubt wheather it was acurate or not but as someone said earlier in the post, the league is just for fun. ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 25 Aug 07 at 8:54pm
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He is Stuart Brown and you are right it really is a bit of fun but for the pedants out there we are talking about relative reliability not Weymouth Speed Week recording or whatever! The data supplied by Stuart covers a period of nearly 20 minutes and the records 'altitude' ranges between 576 feet and 518 feet (actually 58 feet) note that his data covered that extended period. The variation in altitude in the individual line records immediately either side of the highlighted zone is what ? A couple of feet or so ... go on look at the record to be sure. No speed records are claimed but as a relative measure of a regular guy out there carrying a great bit of kit it's pretty good. Also note that this was not Stuart gunning for maximum speed outside of racing - it was recorded at a windy open meeting durng a real race when he could not choose the angles and was presumably trying his best to get round a set course as fast as possible. Bala does not benefit from much of a tide either so no help there either ! Blaze 720 (Oh - and by the way I was in front of him and backing off the speed to stay in control !! - It really was fast - and I don't really give a whatsit how fast you think we were actually going - not as fast as on boards for sure but it felt it !!) |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 26 Aug 07 at 11:04am
It should be noticed that ALL the record sheets as used by the flying blaze in speed freaks have inconsistencies as to the height. The other printouts sensibly don't include elevation, if they did would they also be showing inconsistency? |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Aug 07 at 12:11pm
It's only just fun if there are no prizes. SALES PROMOTION RULES Introduction 27.3 Promoters are responsible for all aspects and all stages of promotions. 27.4 Promotions should be conducted equitably, promptly and efficiently and should be seen to deal fairly and honourably with consumers. Promoters should avoid causing unnecessary disappointment. Administration 31.1 Promotions should be conducted under proper supervision and adequate resources should be made available to administer them. Promoters and intermediaries should not give consumers justifiable grounds for complaint. Other rules for prize promotions 5.9 Prize promotions should specify before or at the time of entry: f: in a competition, ie a game of skill or judgement, the criteria for judging entries (eg the most apt and original tiebreaker). If the selection of winning entries is open to subjective interpretation, an independent judge, or a panel including one member who is independent of the competition’s promoters and intermediaries, should be appointed. Those appointed to act as judges should be competent to judge the subject matter of the competition. The full names of judges should be made available on request If the story is mandatory when a Speed Freak application is made then this gets around some of the issues you could have with point 27.4 and temperamental GPS readings and the potential spurious entries. But it is still the promoters responsibility to endeavour to run a promotion fairly and legally. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |