Lasers
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3123
Printed Date: 19 Aug 25 at 2:09am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Lasers
Posted By: sailor_420
Subject: Lasers
Date Posted: 23 Jun 07 at 9:31pm
| Im thinking of getting a laser 4.7 or radial. Should i do it? Its the right price range and looks ok and also my clubs having the Laser open so i would like to race in that. Theres a lot at the club so i could ask them but they're never around! |
Replies:
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 5:48pm
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If there are 30 at your club ask to try one and see if you like it. If you do then you will have plenty of competition and advise from the other 30 sailors. Me I wouldn't touch one with a long pole used for barges. But that is my opinion. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 6:34pm
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Get a radial not the 4.7 as the 4.7 is just too small for the boat really
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 Jun 07 at 11:10pm
| im no expert on lasers but i fail to see how a 4.7 can go upwind well with so little sail area |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 6:58am
| The 4.7 seems to me to be a really horrible thing... The Radial has got to be the choice if you can possibly hold the rag in your normal club conditions. |
Posted By: Fraggle
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 9:26am
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One thing you haven't said is how heavy you are? Are you big enough for the radial? I've been sailing radial years and love them. Nothing wrong with the 4.7 rig so if you are much under 60kg go for that or you'll be overpowered a lot of the time. You might be lucky and find a boat with both rigs so when you get bigger you have the rig already. ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 11:23am
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the 4.7 is a great rig in a blow, i was on safety boat wednesday night when there was quite a bit of breeze watching a 4.7 beat a full rig, upwind downwind and on the reaches. and it wasnt as if the full rig sailor was a slouch either, he's the one who normally has the biggest haul on presentation evening. the 4.7 goes qicker upwind because the boat is flatter, and there is more power in t rig. Having said that i would still rather sail the radial than 4.7 just because the bigger sail is more fun reaching and running, just kill it with the downhaul upwind, and the same for the full rig. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 12:12pm
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Mike, Laser sailors dont like using cunningham...it stretches their little sails too much  .Thats the one thing I love when instructing and demonstrating sail controls....watching their face when I pull the cunningham full on (so you see the 4th corner drop away). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 12:26pm
ah, so thats why with my radial i can now get the cringle about a centimetre bellow the gooseneck ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 1:34pm
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I sailed a Laser at the weekend for the first time in nearly 10 years. Loved it. I've always thought it to be a great boat, and now with the XD kit it's simply superb. I'd forgotten how quickly and easily it tacks and gybes, and more important how it gives the helm instant feel / feedback after every move. It seems to me that the Laser 'knockers' on this forum just don't appreciate the brilliance of a decades old design that's deceptively simple, responsive, and that is both easy to sail yet challenging to sail fast. I agree the 4.7 is just too small for the boat - if you can't handle a Radial think about a Topper or similar until you're a bit bigger/stronger. |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 2:16pm
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only trouble with the XD kit is how quickly it stretches sails/bends top sections. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 6:00pm
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Despite looking a big odd the 4.7 is a great little boat. I was coaching about a dozen of them at the weekend and they are perfect for the sailors under 60Kgs and make an ideal stepping stone to the Radial as they can get used to the Laser techniques a year early.
Suggested weights for people wanting to race:
4.7 45 - 60 Kgs Radial 55-75Kgs Standard 70-85 Kgs ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 6:12pm
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Not forgetting ... Rooster 8.1 80 Kgs ++ ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 10:19pm
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Im about 50 - 55 kgs probably nearer to 55 with gear. Also they way i think i will do it is buy a standard and buy the rig i want as it is easier than waiting. I need it within the next 3 weeks so how long will it take for laser to deliver the rig approx? ------------- |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 25 Jun 07 at 10:21pm
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Sounds like the 4.7 is perfect for you. The class is well supported by the RYA and the Nationals this year will be held in Weymouth (along with the other rigs) from 11-18 August. Perhaps next year you could move into the Radial... ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 26 Jun 07 at 8:51am
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The 4.7 sounds great for racing against other 4.7's, but the odd ones we have had in handicap races inland have really struggled where the wind has got light under the trees and the like. There just didn't seem to be enough sail to overcome wetted surface in those conditions, even with a very lightweight youth aboard. The same person with a radial rig ha to hold on upwind, but more than pays for that when it came to the "tricky bits". At sea I would imagine it is a different story, as the wind tends to be more even. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 26 Jun 07 at 11:08am
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I think you should be fine if you get a full rig, laser should be able to deliver a 4.7 for you in under 2 weeks. they seemed very quick replacing my old top section. and you can sell the full rig on if its not in too bad a state to help cover a bit of the cost of a new rig. i would suggest before you go and buy a whole new rig look for not-too-old sails or bottom sections for sale, particularly an old bottom section would do just as well as a brand new one. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 26 Jun 07 at 1:47pm
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At 55kg, if you buy a 4.7 then you'll be buying a radial within a few months. Depends on how rich you (your parents?) are and whether or not there are younger siblings following on behind. IMHO, the radial sail is the best of the three. ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 26 Jun 07 at 8:39pm
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I may get a radial as if i get a 4.7 it means after 6 months ill have got big for it. I saw some out today in maybe a F6 and they didnt have huge problems! They went ok up on the beats and they're my weight. Also the club doesnt race 4.7s, only radials and standards! ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 26 Jun 07 at 9:05pm
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radial it is then! ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Crafty
Date Posted: 27 Jun 07 at 4:51pm
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im 56kg without any sailing gear and i sail a radial, i would suggest a radial as i sailed a 4.7 for a bit and only go well in strong wind plus if there are all radials and standards at your club then u wont be class racing ... meaning less fun ------------- Laser Radial/4.7 144929 |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 27 Jun 07 at 5:17pm
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You should be ok with the Radial, as long as its not too strong wind, otherwise even then the 4.7 can be a struggle too. ------------- |
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 30 Jun 07 at 7:13pm
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I got a radial! Thanks for the advice guys it was a great help! ------------- |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 01 Jul 07 at 3:14pm
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the radial is a nice sail i've always wondered what a full rig sized radial cut sail would be like to sail
|
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 01 Jul 07 at 6:56pm
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I went out for the first time today in 23 knots with 27 knot gusts and didnt have much of a problem, only having a near capsize because the main sheet got caught around the stern about 3 times! Anyone know whats wrong? ------------- |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 01 Jul 07 at 7:02pm
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Its a typical Laser problem the stern/Mainsheet thing. The problem is the mainsheet is loose when tacking. The way you solve the problem is to pull your mainsheet in as you are tacking/gybing. It takes practise but once you get it sorted you'll be fine. If it does happen, you can pull on your mainsheet when on the new tack and it may come across, otherwise you will have to reach round and unhook it. ------------- |
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 01 Jul 07 at 7:42pm
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Well im not planning on sailing in wind like this for a bit! I think ill be sailing it a lot over the next 2 weeks so it gives me plenty of time to get used to it, i think im going to race in the West Kirby Laser open which should be quite good! ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 07 at 8:12pm
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the design. on a serious note, in the gybe you have to yank the mainsheet to get the boom to come across. when you do get it stuck the quickest way to untangle it is to swing the tiller extension at it from the leeward side, this pulls it up off the transom and straightens out the block so it goes back to where it should. thats how i do it, i hope that made sense. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 02 Jul 07 at 9:54am
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What do you need to do to reinforce the mast step to beef up an elderly laser to have a go with the 8.1 rig? Certainly not adverse to putting in some hatches strategically placed to access the inside side. ta |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 02 Jul 07 at 7:57pm
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i dont think you need to beef itup, apparently they are pretty sturdy anyway. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Jul 07 at 9:10pm
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The problem really only occurs if the mast for some reason isn't seated right in the hole, in which case the mast can rip right out the side of the tube. I've seen this when a turtled boat has been pulled upright and sailed off. With a bit of care it shouldn't be a problem. If you still want to beef it up, cut the hole for the hatch and then wrap glass tape round and round the tube. Polyester resin is fine for the job, but make sure you start right at the base of the tube or it isn't worth doing. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: sailor_420
Date Posted: 08 Jul 07 at 5:59pm
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Does anyone know a cheap supplier of the 4.7 sail and bottom section? It would be handy for about a year for those windy days until im ready for the radial. Thanks ------------- |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 08 Jul 07 at 7:38pm
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rooster?
------------- Ross If you can't carry it, don't sail it! |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 08 Jul 07 at 8:05pm
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yeh get a rooster sail, i dont think they do bottom sections though. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 09 Jul 07 at 9:08am
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You may be able to pick up a 4.7 sail in good condition after the Europeans (this month) or the Nationals (next month). ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: lucky
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 11:47am
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Does anyone know where I can get a useable Radial sail without breaking the bank? I'm having lots of fun learning with my full rig but on windy days I spend more time in the water than on it. ------------- Chris Laser 9792 |
Posted By: ratface
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 12:18pm
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are you allowed to race the sails made by rooster at opens etc? i swear that you are not allowed... being a one design class ------------- http://www.blym.org.uk/ - BLYM http://www.blym.org.uk/hydrs/index.htm - Hertfordshire Sailing team Uk-Cherub 2644 Laser 4000 -4089 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 12:45pm
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You can not hack saw off a standard section as it is much thicker than a radial section. You need "class" sails to race at class opens (not fakes).
------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 1:49pm
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Remembering an earlier thread, most clubs seemed happy enough letting non standard sails race in normal club racing, and for handicap racing I'd not think there is ever a problem. Class Opens are a different thing altogether, and as with any class, you need to obay the rules. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 3:33pm
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hang on john, the top section for a laser is the same for all the rigs. therefore the bottom sections must all be the same diametre otherwise the top section wouldnt fit/ would wobble about. im sure you could just hacksaw a full rig down to size if you wanted. otherwise just look in Y+Y classifieds for gear under £1000, theres usually laser parts in there. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 3:34pm
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The internal diameter is the same but the 4.7 and standard rig are thicker sections than the Radial. ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 3:51pm
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so the sail will be tight on the bottom section? ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 3:53pm
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The luff curve will be all wrong as the top section will bend too much and the bottom section not enough. Chances are you would break the top section PDQ in a blow... ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |
Posted By: lucky
Date Posted: 13 Jul 07 at 7:03pm
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I'm guessing the gooseneck would need moving up but could be worth a try or would you shorten it from the top? Either way the mast can be aquired fairly cheaply, its the sail that costs the money, hence my earlier post. ------------- Chris Laser 9792 |
Posted By: Jon Emmett
Date Posted: 14 Jul 07 at 9:46am
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The gooseneck would be fine. A cheap why of buying a sail would be to buy it off one of the full time sailors who may have used the sail for just one regatta. ------------- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Your-Own-Tactics-Coach/dp/0470973218/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312565831&sr=8-1 - |