As far back as I can remember in order to enter any open event, you had either be a member of an RYA affiliated club, or a member of the RYA. Class associations did not count, as you did not pay an individual RYA supplement. Looking through some of the recent reports some of the clubs have been recorded as the class association, and in one case at the RS500 event, LDC!

Does this meen that if I start just doing opens again and no club racing, I can get away without being a member of a club or the RYA? or do we, as a sport need to start policing this better?

I expect that this will spark a debate about what the RYA does for us, but without them we dont have rules etc, so we have to have them, and should support them.

AndyMck

Because it's in the Racing Rules of Sailing. 

75.1 To enter a race, a boat shall comply with the requirements of the

In the UK, the ISAF member authority is the UK.

Like most things in sailing, should you decide to ignore the rule and cheat, you will probably get away with it.

I've been through the process of affiliating an organisation to the RYA for the first time. Yes I believe a class association could affiliate - however there is a per-capita annual charge by the RYA which would be not inconsiderable in the context of typical class association subscriptions. If I remember, we did have to provide some evidence we were a bona-fide member's organisation and involved in sailing.  

When I was last on a class association, there was a difference between a class and a club affiliation, and you often had to be a member of both to compete. Class affiliation had to do with providing measurers, technical advice, PY etc, and was a one off fee, where as to be personally affiliated you had either have to pay the individual supplement via a club, or join the RYA directly.

Once you have equipment sailing is one of the cheapest sports around, and I feel we should respect the rules.

Andy

I don't understand why sailors need to be members of clubs to compete at Open event level.

Compared to bicycle racing it seems bizarre.  To race my bike I need to have a certain type of membership of the governing body (costing about £65/year).  After that I can enter any event I like.  This includes 3rd party insurance!  It seems a bit like sailing needs to change its setup to better reflect how people live.  Most people don't have time to do a series of Open events around the country as well as club racing.

Maybe this is one of the reasons why cycling is expanding as a sport while sailing seems to be declining.

You don't. You can be a personal member of the RYA i.e. the governing body,  just like your cycling example.

Sailing isn't on the decline..

If it was, for arguments sake, I very much doubt that having to be a club/ RYA member in order to compete in open events would be a cause! I don't know any sailors who just race at class events and don't belong to a club.

IIRC, RYA membership costs ~£30 a year, and thrid party insurance from Noble could be obtained for my RS800 at ~£25 a year (as opposed to £400 for fully comp.). Therefore, it could be argued that sailing, like for like is cheaper...

I know quite a few and I did so myself for several years.

Is it not possible that those who put LDC or the like as their entry club are also members of another club or the RYA and simply put it down as they were representing LDC in a boat sponsored or owned by LDC? It is also good advertizing, especially as we are giving it air time here!

I know several people who are members of the RYA and put it down on the entry form. As with any rule (like hitting a mark when no one else sees you - do you do your turn?) entry requirements are pretty much self policing. RYA membership is pretty cheap, though!

A neat solution to the problem.

At the end of the day, it's clubs that run most of your opens. That wouldn't happen if everyone just sailed opens and didn't belong to a club.

And it isn't a question of just paying clubs to do it. Many clubs charge a nominal fee for opens and their members who do the duties have the right to expect that other clubs will reciprocate when they do an open.

Begrudging the small membership that a lot of clubs charge sounds somewhat parasitic to me. [ducks]

Playing devil's advocate! Why not make all opens a commercial venture, so thats £200 per day for the race officer £100 for every other member of staff plus a margin on the use of venue and equipment for wear & tear, say £1500 costs including profit for a small 1 day event with 10 - 15 boats = entry fees of £100+ per boat.  So can someone explain why there is such a reluctance to pay £25 and be a member of a club or RYA.  And sailing isn't expensive compared to the ticket prices / season tickets to a premiership football club.

I seem to remember a post here recently about open meetings costing too much.

So from all of this I can summarise....

 - some people are relutctant to pay much for open meetings

 - some people are relutctant to contribute to their class associations

 - some people are relutctant to contribute to the clubs that they sail at

 - some people are relutctant to support their national association

How about providing you with free boat to use as well.  Maybe free food at the events.  Hey, let's subsidise your fuel to drive to the event as well.  The top 5 boats get their council tax paid for the year...

If you think there are any fat cats in the sail racing arena, then you're wrong.  If you think the sport of sailing organises, polices and promotes itself for free, then you're wrong.  If you think sailing is expensive compared to other sports, then I strongly suspect you are wrong, although you are free to find out for yourself.

This is a great idea!  where do I sign up?

My remark included the words "round here" and there are no local clubs offering that kind of fee "round here".

As for the price requiring four days of volunteering, people's situations vary. Personally I work freelance and time is money. 4 days of my time is actually worth quite a lot of money. 

At times I've belonged to a number of clubs and at times I've belonged to the RYA. I've always belonged to something that has allowed me to enter events within the rules and I've always paid my class associations subs. 

I'm a safety driver for my club (voluntary) and have done a lot of opens. We as a club put on large events, what I would say is that if you don't like paying the fees don't come!

You have to remember if we all started charging for our time then you wouldn't be doing it at all.

 Our club is a business and need to make a certain amount of money to sustain it's membership and to keep running. This is not just to let us members sail,but to run opens for visitors.It's not cheap to do opens, but it is n't about that it's about enjoying your sport and meeting other like minded people,so  I  think if you think we're charging to much stay at home, and join your local club.  

OK here is another slant on this issue. We have a Laser Open this weekend but some of our own members will not be taking part because they refuse to pay an entry fee to sail at their own club. The entry fee is only £10.00

Now that to me is tight. They should support their club by making the event both successful in terms of attendance and financially.

These are the same people that bring their own sandwiches to the club. We man our canteen on a rota basis and only charge £1.00 for a sandwich. The canteen makes a good profit for the club. 

I have to agree, that is tight to the point of stupidity.  Why would people do that?  I don't see a difference really between entering an open at my own club or any other. 

Definately tight.  If that laser open is part of a circuit then the club will be paying subs to be part of that and also they have to cover the cost of prizes which will be issued whether it is a club member or visitor winning them.  Open meeting costs are additional to a clubs normal expenses and they have to be met.

OK, before we go too far...

Most of us, myself included, are happy to buy food and drinks at clubs - convenient + support the club and all that. But you need to remember that in these days of wildly diverging household incomes, there are a lot of people about who really do need to watch every penny. These are people who often work just as hard as you and I do but get paid a pittance, and they deserve not our condemnation but our respect for not just chucking in their job and going on benefit.

Of course, there are the rich, tight-fisted as well, but we need to remember to distinguish...

Are you serious ... you really don't need members like that

I just can not except not wanting to pay the entry fee. After all they probably get a reduction of at least £10 on the petrol cost to get to the open compared to everyone else and they get good sailors coming to them!

Also the Laser open is part of a series with some excellent prizes. I would ask if the "same members" are members of the UKLA but I have a funny feeling I know the answer!!

Maybe you should have a name and shame board...............

It does sound a bit sad that people are really so bad they wont support their own club for the sake of a tenner!

This has moved on from the original question.

Question 1 - should people be members of genuine club / national authority to compete in opens?  Yes they should and their entries should not be accepted if they are not, and they should be protested if the entries are accepted.  The RYA should be reminding clubs of their obligations in this regard.

Question 2 - should open events be free to club members?  I realise that the convention is to require an entry fee.  Some clubs do give discounts to their own members.  I feel that they should be free to club members.  It should be a benefit of your membership that when your class has an event you get to join in for free.  It is an event at your club that is open to more than the membership.  You have paid your membership and the others are paying for temporary membership by their entry fees.  You are the host they are the guest.  It would be another tool that clubs could use to support fleet racing rather than the handicap racing that is harming clubs beyond belief.

The money side is not important to me either way.  Maybe a convention that your home open meeting was a benefit might persuade more people to take up club memberships and inevitably put a little bit more back into the sport than they would otherwise do.