Europe vs Laser vs other?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2920
Printed Date: 19 Aug 25 at 1:18am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Europe vs Laser vs other?
Posted By: Ross
Subject: Europe vs Laser vs other?
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 7:33pm
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Hey, new member hear and I need you advice I'm buying a boat, and I don't know what to get! I am a competent sailor (I have my RYA instructors with racing endorsement, all the old junior scheme certs. and I used to race in the RYA SE topper squad) I'm 17, male, bang on 5ft 9" and around 70kg. My budget is only £1000, so looking at second hand boats. The obvious choice would be either a laser full rig or radial, but I am looking into similar boats such as the Given my height and weight (still growing though), what other boats would you suggest? If I was to go with a laser, do you think a radial or a full rig would suit me better? The contender appeals, and again they can be had for £1000 but will my height and weight be an issue? There does not have to be a very active circuit or class, as I am quite happy just competing at club level. But I might attend the odd open meeting. Cheers, Ross. |
Replies:
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 8:01pm
| Its part of a sailing education to be able to pick the shifts, pick off boats at marks and get good starts. You won't learn that very fast in a Vortex, if fact the Laser is the boat to learn those skills. The Europe is a nicer boat but without the class racing you'd be focussing on tweaking and again those important skills will not be developed. It pains me to say this but from what you say a Laser is the boat for you, but hey nothing is forever and in a couple of years you may be able to consider a change to a thoroughbred like a Europe or something more exciting like a Vortex. |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 8:43pm
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I hadn't though of it from that perspective. All clubs have a couple of laser's to race against, and competition is the best way to improve the skills that you mentioned and I wont find many other boats in the same situation. Unless I buy a Solo |
, as there is a large Solo fleet a King George Sailing Club!Posted By: Rob.e
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 9:12pm
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Don't knock it till you try it! I went from an RS 300 to a Solo and loved it, purely 'cos I was sailing in big fleets. You cannot beat good competition for fun. ------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 9:16pm
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Come on, Contender guys, let me hear it: "GO FOR A CONTENDER!" Your size and weight would put you on the lighter end of the fleet but, over the last few years, many excellent young sailors have proved that Contenders are not only sailed by middle-aged gorillas. You can pick up a second-hand Contender within your price range and I don't think you will get that much fun with another boat for that amount of money. Bonus: it you don't like it after a couple of years, you can sell it for the price you've bought it! It'll teach you agility and responsiveness, give you first-hand trapeze practice and, when you get your own car with towbar, the circuit is full of great guys. Come along to Lancing and you can borrow mine ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 9:35pm
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I would love to try out a Contender, and if you were closer to For the moment though I just need some regular, decent sailing to get back up to instructing standard. A few years ago my club (King George SC) was drained for maintenance (it’s a reservoir owned by
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Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 9:39pm
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If you want to try a Contender then King George is the place to go. i think my old one ended up there and is still there. ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 10:10pm
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International OK is the boat for you, you can pick up a very quick boat for a grand depending on where you sail there are some big fleets as well more technical and harder work then a laser, but so much more boat. ------------- |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 10:46pm
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No answer except - try them all ! We are all very biased and only you will know what does it for you.... I'm sure all the CA's will happily arrange a go for you if you approach them. Blaze 720 |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 10:49pm
CA's  -excuse my ignorance
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Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 11:18pm
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Class Associations Blaze is right and we're all going to try and convince you that our own class of boat is the answer. So, you have an alternative: - contact the class associations for the boats you like and arrange a trial sail or - see what people sail in your local sailing club and ask to have a go! Since you're an experienced sailor, I am sure that some enthusiastic members will be happy to try and recruit you in their own class. ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 02 May 07 at 11:24pm
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I can't believe my luck! There is a contender for sale at King George! At a VERY, VERY good price!
PS: I am aware of the number of exclamation marks in this post! |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 12:27am
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Bugger, it’s an out of date advertisement. |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 9:01am
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Ross, That was my Contender, sorry it went to the first person to see it. Got more for it than I paid for it, there was so much interest. The Solo fleet at KGSC is good but if you want a single hander go with the Laser or Contender. You may be slightly short for a Contender so a Radial might be a good idea. If you are around this evening there is racing - think I'm sailing an 800 - if you come join you can take out a club Radial or talk to the other Contender sailors. PS there may be another Contender from KGSC coming on the market soon - going cheap probably but no promises. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 9:18am
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When I started sailing contenders I was about your size Ross, it just ment that I was over powered earlyer. Still trapezing in a F2 did have some advantages against the grillors. Do try a contender IMHO they are a very nice boat and a good alternative to the Laser. ------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 10:06am
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I have just got myelf a contender a couple of weeks ago. been out on it a few times, and off again this afternoon. Been great fun, just need to get the hang of the wire to wire tacking, and have managed to stay relativly try so far. ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Posted By: Contender512
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 8:02pm
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I switched to a Contender last September after sailing a Lightning 368
for the last 15 years. I'm 5'9" and weigh 72kg and haven't found it too
much of a handful except when it really blows, so don't let your size put you off. |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 8:37pm
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Alert Alert!!! We're being over run by Contender sailors! Welcome number 512 you join a long list of numbers on here (oh and BnS who also sails one ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
)Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 9:10pm
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I e-mailed Aida Blentic about joining and I was told it would be best to come to the club open day next Saturday, so I will definitely be coming along to that and may well join on the day. Any more info on that Contender that might be up for sale? I'm leaning towards a Laser as they're everywhere and cheap to pick up second hand. But the Contender can also be had cheaply and there are Contender sailors at King George to race against. It looks like so much fun as well. Tacking and gybing look tricky but these things will come in time. |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 03 May 07 at 11:11pm
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Ross, Definitely come along. I won't be around as its the B14 TT event at Whitstable but the club is superb and very friendly. You missed an incredible sail tonight - reckon we had the 800 fully maxed out, made 180 acres seem very small indeed. No info on the Contender yet, but I can do a bit of poking around once you join. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 04 May 07 at 12:07am
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I am really looking foward to it. I wish I had come tonight, but prior commitmeants prevented me. Whats you name by the way? Combat Wombat is a bit of a mouth full cheers.
PS: If you ever need a crew, give me a shout! I can hoist and trim a spinnaker nicely |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 04 May 07 at 12:20am
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George - the one with the bluey greeney turquoisey B14. I'm a crew for high performance boats. Currently sailing the 800 on Thursday evenings and B14 at weekends. The RS800 isn't mine but I'm sailing it with the ex helm of 18ft Skiff Base1 so he knows whats going on! There is an opening for an ISO crew currently at KGSC if you are boatless for the present time, talk to the guy with the yellow ISO. I can helm to a point however so if I am short of crew I will find you - as you know I sold my single hander, and I hate Lasers so won't sail the club boats. We won't be around this weekend or the next weekend but should be sailing Saturday 19th. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: Deimos
Date Posted: 04 May 07 at 8:14pm
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Without knowing the fleets where you sail, nor having experience of the other classes you mention, some aspects that steered me towards a Laser recently were things like Decent fleets in most places Loads of open meetings around the place Fast to rig (even with the latest high purchase XD equipment) Keep 2nd hand value well and easy to sell when changing later Strict one design means that when you win/lose you are doing that and not you cheque book (at least to a greater extent than some other classes). Great fun, etc., etc. I'm sure the other classes have their advantages as well (I just don't know them well enough to make comparisons) Ian |
Posted By: radixon
Date Posted: 04 May 07 at 9:19pm
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Agree with others, try them all. As you are a DI, its good to get experience of boats so get out there. I would steer you towards a Laser, only cos its in your price range and spares are easy to come by. (IMO) ------------- |
Posted By: Rob.e
Date Posted: 05 May 07 at 7:37pm
The problem you had with the Contender (ie out of date advert) is a common one, and one the class needs to address: I spoke to the guy on the stand at the dinghy exhibition and he had heard the same from other people. Basically you look on the site and there are a few good looking boats available, but when you phone them they all sold ages ago! I gave up and bought something else, which is a shame, 'cos I still want one! Two boats is enough though..... ------------- |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 10 May 07 at 11:05pm
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Hey guys, need some advice. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&a%20mp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280112%20636852&rd=1&rd=1 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&a mp;a mp;sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280112 636852&rd=1&rd=1 How much would you value it at? Is the rig up to date with modern contender gear? I don't know anything about contender rigging, but from what I have read there seems to be a few different materials and control line set-ups to choose from. Or is it just the mast and boom materials that change? I am slightly confused, to say the least .How different is the above boat compared to this one (apart from the pro grip)? http://www.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=60340&image=1 - http://www.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=60340&image=1 A list of what to look for and what to avoid would be great. Cheers guys, Ross. |
Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 11 May 07 at 7:42am
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Hello Ross
461 looks the better boat - anything made by Wavelength in the rig is good. Also 461 has severalo sails, so one of them must be reasonable. They are both the same make of hull so no difference there. They were build by Rondar and are reasonably solid. Progrip is a must. So spend the extra money and get the newer boat. You would only regret not getting it. ------------- Bonnie Lass Contender 1764 |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 11 May 07 at 9:23am
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http://www.sailcontender.org.uk/contender-faqs/what-should-i-look-for-when-buying-secondhand.html - http://www.sailcontender.org.uk/contender-faqs/what-should-i -look-for-when-buying-secondhand.html This link to an article in the British Contender Association website might be a start. ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: Contender512
Date Posted: 11 May 07 at 9:35am
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I agree, 461 looks the better boat. From what I can make out from the photos, it looks as if the control lines have been upgraded to modern rigging techniques. Have a look here http://www.contenderworld.de/images/this-old-boat/gil_boats/index.html - http://www.contenderworld.de/images/this-old-boat/gil_boats/ index.html for some info on upgrading older Contenders. Much easier to buy one where the upgrades have already been done, particularly changing the kicker from two cleats on the side decks to a single central cleat on a swivel - makes it much easier to adjust. |
Posted By: radial179102
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 6:48pm
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Right, now for a rant about why you should choose a Europe; I am 5"10 and about 63kg, and boom height is no problem, just for a start, they are quite quick, light (45kg!!) and so responsive it's untrue! There are going to be new UK builders soon (RMW) and the open meetings and nationals numbers are on the increase. They are tweaky fiddly boats but for what you get, they are very cheap. Mine is a top spec Winner hull with a carbon mast, full race kit and brand new control lines. 3 sails of different sorts too, and it was only £1500. Oh and that included roadbase and u/o covers. Mine wasn't necessarily a bargain either, lots of Europes are selling for that price. I am inclined to agree with everyone else though, try lots of different boats, I love the Europe because it's right for me, which may not be the case for you! ------------- 
Villan is my Bitch ;) |
Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 7:25pm
Abso-bloody-lutely! Including the mainsheet tower and the majority of the cockpit floor, especially if you're vertically-challenged like me. As I recall, Contender control systems are much simpler than many other single-handers (except maybe a Laser, but they're just...well.....moving on....). I particularly liked the split kicker arrangement - blindingly simple but extremely effective, no overkill.
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Posted By: ColH
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 7:27pm
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Oh and the other thing to bear in mind about the Contender vs. Europe /Laser: the Contender is a thing of beauty! Maybe one or two of the modern SMOD's will look as graceful one day, but to my mind there's nothing quite so elegant on the water as a Contender. Except perhaps a Flying 15.
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Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 13 May 07 at 3:13am
| 461 sold before i could get it. BUGGER. I'm thinking of bidding on the one on eBay, I can't see it going for a lot more than it is already. I can spend some money on upgrading it but I would have to start drilling holes and changing out parts. |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 13 May 07 at 5:40pm
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Vortex is the best option!!! I've had mine for about 1/2 a year now and i've just recently purchased the assy kit. You can normually spot some cheap ones on apploduck.co.uk , they will probably be non asymmetric but until you've had some practice and got used to the boat there is no need for it! I picked mine up for only £1200 and i believe there is one for sale local to me at around the same price! mark
------------- RS300 - 346 :D |
Posted By: Ross
Date Posted: 13 May 07 at 6:03pm
| I was considering a Vortex, but I am now set on a Contender. Out of interest, where do you live? |
Posted By: Splosh
Date Posted: 13 May 07 at 6:50pm
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I'm near Ipswich (suffolk), I sail at Alton Water. Mark ------------- RS300 - 346 :D |