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British Sport!!

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2864
Printed Date: 18 Aug 25 at 5:46pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: British Sport!!
Posted By: Adds
Subject: British Sport!!
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 12:43pm
Everyone moans about how bad we are at sport as a Nation. However our governing bodies do not allow the best people to go to top event that you have to be selected for. At the Youth Nationals in the 29ers Frances Peters and Hannah Diamond sailed a superb series beat all of the boys and won overall and did not get selected for the ISAF youth worlds. Instead the RYA selected their FAVOURITE/SUPPORTED crew rather than the team that won the trials. What a dreadful decision.

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Cheers Dudes



Replies:
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 12:51pm

Well the RYA are going to look right numpties (in their eyes) if they don't

I bet the rules didn't state that the winners would get selected.  Always a good get out of jail card that one.

 

 



Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 12:51pm
I can see what you mean. However the RYA must have had a reason for this decision. maybe the selected pair have been more consistant throughout the season, or have a better international record. the wind was very light last week aswell, so maybe it was thought that the winners of the trials would have struggled in the breezy stuff. (i dont know if this is true, im just wondering why the RYA made this decision)

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Owain H
49er GBR055
Fireball 14291
Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club


Posted By: Adds
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 12:59pm
It is called youth trials so you would assume if you won the event pretty easily you would get selected over the RYA's chosen pair.
From what I know of Canadian sailing last weeks event is very similar conditions.

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Cheers Dudes


Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 1:14pm

I think it was similar to the Olympic selection. The trials is only a guide to the selectors.

This was done to prevent the likes of Ben Ainslie from being deselected at any trials due to bad result.



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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 1:16pm

"Six months after making the move to the new boat, Weguelin and crew Sophie Ainsworth (Ashford) were crowned Under 19 and Women’s World Champions at the 29er Worlds held in January this year."

So if I understand correctly, the RYA is sending the currrent Under 19 and Women's World Champions in the class. That seems a fairly understandable decision. A difficult and controversial one possibly but hardly "dreadful".

 



Posted By: Contender443
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 1:21pm
Stefan - I have just read that article at http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=135905 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=135905  and can see why they were selected so no problem here.

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Bonnie Lass Contender 1764


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 1:50pm

It's not the first or last time that the best sailor(s) at a selection event have not gone on to the big event.

This is the old problem ...if you stick to the first past the post system you may leave your best sailor behind.

Buckley & Newlands won the 470 Worlds and the Gold at the pre-Olympics and didn't win the trials so didn't go.

I think there are even more examples at Youth level.

When you enter the event you know the rules ... harsh for these sailors though.

Perosnally at youth level I'd say skills are changing/developing so fast that it should be first past the post but not for Olympics ....

Hard luck for Peters & Diamond but I have no doubt they will bounce back with even more determination.



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Posted By: Adds
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 2:12pm
What is the point of all those kids going to the trials with the aspiratons of going to the youth worlds if the rya have already made there minds up. No wonder kids leave the sport at 17-18.

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Cheers Dudes


Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 3:14pm

The Youth Nationals were sailed in light winds only.  The selectors have a responsibility to consider a wider range of conditions when selecting representatives for a future event (unless the event venue is Qingdao...).  All competitors will have been aware that the Nationals weren't a "winner automatically qualifies" event.  Whilst this is understandably disappointing for any winners who aren't selected it doesn't justify Adds' bitter-sounding accusations of favouritism and "already made there (sic) minds up" unless he/she has some genuine inside knowledge that we are unaware of...

Mike



Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 3:28pm

Putting aside the issue of did the right boat get selected,  I have been working on a results database ( http://www.sailracer.co.uk - SailRacer ) to help answer these questions.

The SailRacer system was used to display the results at last week's http://www.sailracer.co.uk/youthnats.asp - Youth Nationals  and I had also captured some of the previous results of the competitors,  this allows us to do comparisons between when they have competed against each other. 

Youth Nats



Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 3:32pm
Although it maybe considered unfair for the team who won the youth nationals. I think its more unfair for the team who have been consistant all season and had a few bad races during a difficult week. 

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Owain H
49er GBR055
Fireball 14291
Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 4:24pm
Simon- that table may be misleading- as Peters is a younger helm than Weguelin, so the earlier events- even in other classes, will favour the elder helm. It now appears that Peters has caught up, and performed better on the (light wind) day than Weguelin.

I know nothing about the class or the girls involved, so just speculating.


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Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 16 Apr 07 at 5:07pm

Originally posted by Harry44981!

Simon- that table may be misleading- as Peters is a younger helm than Weguelin,

Harry - the table represents actual results,  but as you say there may be factors or circumstances behind the data that could influence individual positions,  this is where the knowledge and experience of the RYA selectors comes in to play..

Peters and Diamond are clearly sailors to watch in the future even if they missed out this time



Posted By: al2956
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 3:30pm

Simon,

Your table is totally misleading, especially when you consider that there is a 2 year age gap between Peters and Weguelin,and most results listed are in the optimist class where age is highly significant. Others factors not reflected are

- the amount of coaching received by the 2 pairings - one is fully funded in the youth squad with ts support + loads of additional support , and the other is largely self coached and not in any squad and completely self-motivated

- the fact that Diamond only started crewing in January having previously been a successful helm - Ladies European 29er Champion after only 3 or 4 months in the class and 21st at the Worlds with a crew not ever sailed with before - not publicised anywhere.

Statistics may have their uses but definately not in this case.

 



Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 3:42pm

The heading amuses me - British Sport?? What has this thread to do with the obvious failings in the so called 'Major sports'? Unlike those sports, the RYA system and lottery funding has produced a whole generation of world class sailors. A resultant fact is that we have at least two exceptionally good female 29er crews and EITHER would have been very good representatives. The fact the RYA went for the more experienced, very well proven championship performers should be no suprise.

If the current youth policy continues and top crews continue to develop,  I suspect that a year or two from now Sophie et al will find that policy a good idea.



Posted By: 29er310
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 3:57pm
The problem at the youths was due to the awful wind all week, some of the
races had to be run inside of chichester harbour, which some may say could
have created an unfair advantage for the girls from hayling island because
they would have better local knowledge of the tides etc, also the event was
purely a light wind event with some of the teams who race well in heavier
winds not having a chance to show what they can do.


Posted By: Adds
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 4:59pm
Well Frances beat Sophie in most races as well as winning the qualifing series. She was first around the windward mark in the first five races from what I have heard.

Also doesn't Frances have proven record 2 time feva national champion plus many other achievements.

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Cheers Dudes


Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 5:08pm
dont think she was last year (feva national champ) i think it was some old dude, wasnt really paying attention. and anyway fevas are not exactly similar to 29ers. you can try and telll me that they are both small asymetrics but it is a mahoosive leap from feva to 29er. the 9er is so much less stable and more exciting and has a lot more bits of string than a feva.

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600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318


Posted By: A Seabadger
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 5:14pm
The "Old dude" that won the Feva Nationals last year was 14year old Aaron Smith!!!

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I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it.


Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 5:29pm
hohum. i know some old dude got a prize, i wasnt really listening and it was a long time ago.

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600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318


Posted By: HannahJ
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 6:59pm
OLD dude? relatively? how old are you again mike?

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MIRROR 64799 "Dolphin"
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail


Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 7:17pm
oh come on, drop it, im nearly 16

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600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318


Posted By: HannahJ
Date Posted: 17 Apr 07 at 8:44pm
joke

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MIRROR 64799 "Dolphin"
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail



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