What boat ... ??
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Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2842
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 5:34am
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Topic: What boat ... ??
Posted By: Noobie
Subject: What boat ... ??
Date Posted: 09 Apr 07 at 10:06am
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Here goes ... situation ... Me 47 fit and active (I think) ... three sons 14, 13 & 11. Experiance ... I used to own a mirror some 20 yrs ago & then turned to wndsurfing which is still lying dormant in the garage after some 14 years of non-use. Two eldest sons have been on weeks water courses and really enjoyed the sailing aspects ... eldest going single handed and obviously loving it. Boat ... towable ... handled by me and 14 yr old ... appreciating they need to start somewhere but looking for a boat that will live with us for a while good in light winds but the spectrum including extreme (if thats possible) crewed by 2 adults, maybe 1 adult two kids (but not essential). Have been looking at the Vago but reading some of the comments on the forums started to doubt myself. Any help would be appreciated pointing me in the right direction realising people must have their preferences. Thank you Alan ------------- Noobie requiring good advice : ) |
Replies:
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 09 Apr 07 at 11:57am
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Alan, I would take a L2000 over a Vago, not sure what the light wind performance in one is like though having only ever crewed in one when it is blowing dogs off chains! I believe the Vago weighs something like 270 or KG (which is more than a Wayfarer which IMO is a much better boat). The othr thing with the L2K is that you can (if you want to) get a trapeze kit and lowers which will allow for trapeze training. The other thing you may want to consider is something like a Fireball. People may laugh but they are acutally quite stable or perhaps a Scorpion both pretty good in the light stuff, advantage of a proper kite and both tunable according to conditions (especially the Scorp when fitted with a raking rig). Just my 2p as always.... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 09 Apr 07 at 1:42pm
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Try a GP14. Plenty of cockpit space, decent lightwind performance, not the lightest boat in the world but will sail in pretty much any weather you throw at it. Widely available in different materials with double floors on the more recent boats. Ken 8~) |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 09 Apr 07 at 8:27pm
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Take a look at this report of the last 3000 nationals, incl. the photos: http://www.3000class.org.uk/forum/content.asp?GET_ID=727 - http://www.3000class.org.uk/forum/content.asp?GET_ID=727 A lot of the teams were parent-teenager. The boat is easy to sail, doesn't require a great deal of weight but, being low to the water gives a good dose of excitement. Browse under 'All Forums' or go to the home page for more info on the class - we're small but friendly. |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 09 Apr 07 at 9:33pm
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Sails 3 up and good in light winds? Thames A-rater obviously! But seriously ... L2000s are pretty good in light winds, lots of momentum and comfy seats. Also work in huge winds due to solid construction and reefable sails. Quite spacious, v. popular with couples and hold their price well too. Stratos = same but bigger and pricier. But ... expensive for what you get, heavy and not exactly the scintillating performance desired by most teenagers. The dad / son pairings at our club have disolved into either dad and son in separate boats or dad and son getting an RS800 - leaving mum in the coffee shop probably! But they did have fun for a while. Performance wise, much the same's true of GP14s, wayfarers etc. Bit dull. Vago? erm no. It has its merits but there are better boats around (see above). Poor in light winds and 3 up is a no go - believe me I've tried it; too many trip hazards and a guaranteed swim. Compact 2 person trapeze boats do tend to be a little cramped! Personally, faced with a situation similar to your own, I've ended up with three boats to cover all eventuallities; one of which is the aforementioned 3000 - but for which you mustn't mind getting very wet as it has almost no freeboard. Maybe a L2000 for a few years, but expect to trade it in. ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: Hobbo
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 12:14am
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Depending on your size you may want to look at an Osprey (or on budget second hand 505/Javelin too). Boat tows very nicely if on right trailer despite size. Sailabale by father and son, several teams like that in the class, including a 12 y.o. and his dad (not big people) third to windward mark in one race at the nats. Reasonable performance in lightwinds, more comfortable than some smaller dinghies. Can be managed in higher winds, especially with adjustale rig to remove power. Easily enough room for three and allowed to be raced either two or three up by class rules and handles the weight comfortably, a lighter team came 9th at the nats sailing three up. All the fun of the trapeze of the Vago but performs SO much better than a Vago as well as being more comfortable. Added challenge of the symmetrical kite which is more practical on many club courses and which you may be used to from your mirror days. Superbly quick on a 3 sail reach. Thats my very biased two pennies worth  .------------- Contender GBR 362 Osprey 1318 - IVplay SSC |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 10:16am
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All my boys learned to trapeze on my Osprey, the youngest when he was 9. Great fun, quick, will handle any size people, any time, any place, any where. The two eldest are now around 6' 3" and have no probs with the occaissional blat round when they are back from Uni. The youngest, now 14, is now far better at sailing than me, but still deigns to come out for the odd zap round. (Also older women often comment about what a good looking boat it is. Another biased opinion for your consideration. |
Posted By: Noobie
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 10:58am
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Thanks for all the posts certainly makes interesting reading .... just to add to the debate any thoughts on either the RS200 or RS Feva are they totally more advanced for two persons ... i.e. don't run before you can walk ... ?? From the posts the L2000 seems to be the general opinion ... its just that it looks so big for two people (have to excuse my ignorance) and I believe whatever the family say now about all wanting to be in the boat it will inevitably be two of us and more than likely one adult & one child, Cathrine walking the dog! The statement "maybe a L2000 for a few years, but expect to trade it in" concerns me. Alan PS as above please excuse any comments that seem daft I'm in the market for a boat and its a few years since I've taken a look at whats out there (20+) !!! ------------- Noobie requiring good advice : ) |
Posted By: Graham T
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 11:00am
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My Kids (8 & 11) love sailing in the Osprey but it is a handful in any real wind with an 8 year old trying to sheet in a huge genoa. We also find there is too much string in the front end to have them both crewing at the same time (a Mk IV is better in this respect). It is also a real weight to pull up the slip with a tired child after sailing! What we use for family sailing is a Miracle - light, faster than a mirror with more space (we have raced this 4 up!), great fun in a blow as you are so near the water you hike out in your own bow wave and in light airs I have sailed past Ospreys in it! The greatest asset is that I can send them to get changed and pull the boat up the slip on my own with no problems when they are cold and wet. It is easy for them to sail on their own as well so I can get out in the Osprey with the Mrs.... You really need at least two boats! |
Posted By: Noobie
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 11:18am
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Need two boats !!!!! the wife would love that ... NickA having three ... must admit Osprey also sounds interesting ... I'll have a trawl around a few sites ... Alan ------------- Noobie requiring good advice : ) |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 11:34am
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Children must learn that sailing is not over until the boat is put away
(No, it didn't work on mine either, but hey hey you have to try
Actually, Tenby sailing club are having a "Try a Mk IV Osprey" day on 5th May. How about a nice trip to the seaside and a try in the boat. I believe they've got 5 or 6 new Ospreys down there......could be more than that now.
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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 1:22pm
Don't forget that a well maintained Laser 2000 will hold value really well so it may not cost you much aside from the usual running costs and a bit of TLC. They are quite large boats be when you get 2 'adult' sized people in the then there is not a huge amount of room for others when you are in full racing mode. However we have a family that go out 5 up and are quite happy with it. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: A Seabadger
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 6:11pm
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It's not too cool to sail for long with a parent. From experience much better to sail with friends (or brothers only if you don't fight). Buy the boys a Feva as a good stepping stone into whatever they want to sail next. They can sail it two up or single handed. Buy yourself a Laser - and a double road trailer! ------------- I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every moment of it. |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 9:21pm
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The RS200 is maybe a bit ambitious - really just a boat for class racing, I'd suggest. The Feva is at the other extreme - too small for you I'd think; a boat of racy appearance for kids. If you want a little boat, I'd support the earlier suggestion of a Miracle over a Feva: faster, lighter, more roomy.
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Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 10 Apr 07 at 9:24pm
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The feva is a pretty good boat for a couple of 13 / 14 yr olds or a single handing adult or an intermediate adult and a preteen. It's easy to sail. The RS200 is a rather twitchy two hander for reasonably skilled lightweights. Significantly racier than the Laser 2000 Neither have room for 3. The osprey is a huge muscle boat for big hairy men! (Haven't sailed one to be honest - but they do look that way Truth is, you never find a boat that does everything - and the price of a reasonable L2000 (£5000) will get a decent 3000 (£2000), an old laser 1 (£1000) and a pico (£1500) - of course the berthing fees are higher! ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 11 Apr 07 at 8:17am
Sorry Nick I would have to disagree the L2000 is a cruising/racing dinghy. There is easily room for 3 adults (or 2 adults and 3 children as has been demonstrated) but you could not race one that way. Some kids do actually like to sail with their parents or even just with someone else. It may be worth seeing if someone at your local club is after a crew, will save you the cost of buying a boat for a while until everyone knows what they want. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 11 Apr 07 at 11:50am
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the feva would be good for two kids as long as they arent too big, it needs a small crew to get under the boom. you would be hard pushed to get an adult and a child in it and you certainly wouldnt fit 2 adults in it. RS 200 is probably a bit too ambicous for you, as has already been said its twitchy and more of a racer without room for a third person. the easiest boat to own (i.e lowest maintenance, easiest to sell on) would be the laser 2000 because you could race that and sail it around with kids but expect your kids to want rid of it or have their own boats shortly. i dont know about ospreys, never even seen one close up. perhaps a laser 2000 for a year then a laser each for the kids or feva/200 depending on their size and if they want to sail together still. not sure what you would want to sail. one more thing to consider is what is sailed at your club because it's much better to have boats of your own class to race against. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 11 Apr 07 at 3:51pm
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I Suppose it depends. Raced against 2-3 father son teams at itchenor last weekend ... ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: WildWood
Date Posted: 11 Apr 07 at 4:29pm
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Your initial suggestion of the Vago wasn't that daft - would certainly keep the kids interested longer than a L2000, which are for old women I'd say see what folk are racing at your local club and get something exciting. If you get out regularly you'll soon learn how to sail it and your kids will be more inclined to take part. The Topper Xenon is another option - they look quite interesting and have a reasonable performance, no maintenance, big comfy modern boat etc. ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 11 Apr 07 at 7:21pm
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Xenon=bathtub, even more so than the vago. and one thing about rotomoulded boats, they all boast to be low maintenance but if the hull cracks due to being badly designed (older feva hulls) or through lots of use, or it has any big holes in it it will be near impossible to get someone to mend it cost effectively, its cheaper to get a new hull. at least if you do damage glass fibre there are lots of people who know how to repair it, rotomoulded boats are a different story. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 11 Apr 07 at 9:14pm
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Oops, misunderstood again. I meant that the feva and RS200 are small for 2; the L2k is fine. When on safety duty I've occassionally assisted overpowered Laser 2000 couples back to shore by acting as extra ballast. Even 3 adults can have fun if there's enough wind. ... but the L2k's still slow and boring in medium winds and uncomfortable to sit on the side of if it's windy enough to perform well. The gunnals are too sharp for easy hiking and the controls are a long way down in the bottom of the boat. Bit "sit up and beg" for my tastes .... but many many disagree.
------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |