Had a look at Masthead floats last year and bought the Crewsaver 9 litre jobby for our Laser II. It didn't stop inversions particularly with a wind against tide situation, the best it did was slow them down very slightly.

The RYA 2005 paper on dinghy entrapments makes an interesting read :-

It may be a more expensive option, but you might have to get a laser sail "made" to incorporate a flotation device.

The track run sails, ie the GP14 can be modified easily using the Crewsaver option with a tiedown point riveted to the mast.

You have mentioned this before on other threads, Jim and I'm curious to know what boat it was that got away from you. I had a similar experience when I first sailed a Vortex on Belfst Lough - and that was without mast floatation! I didn't actually need rescuing but many thanks to al the curtain-twitchers of Ballyholme for calling out the RLNI anyway!

For boats that float very high in the water when on their side I can see your reasoning. A GP doesn't fall into that category, I think so they should be all right.

The Topper masthead floats do work in that they slow the inversion. If one of you can get on the board quickly then they do actually help keep the boat balanced and it can be easily righted by a fairly light person. If you go in for a windward capsize (as in numpty helm losing his grip of the sheet) then it's gonna turtle.

More often than not, people who are learning to sail or relatively inexperienced aren't "quick" enough, hence the reason I've probably seen a good few Topper boats with inflatable floats up the mast instead of the designed system. I'd bet it's even written into some centres standard operating procedures to use the alternative method. Jim makes a very good point, I don't think there is anything wrong with boats inverting on coastal locations, especially when they are quite bulky and have an air pocket underneath them when inverted.

If boats were just designed with much less buoyancy off the centreline they'd float lower on their sides when capsized with lots of hull immersed, and

a) drift much more slowly,

b) allow you to climb on the c'board more easily, and

c) have less tendency (or need) to invert.

Open transom?

Getting on the plate/board of a high floating ( on their side) dinghy from the water is very hard, especially after a  swim and after a long, hard race.   Inverting the boat, pretty much stops the drift and most importantly, allows one crew member to clamber on board the upturned hull, grab the plate and ride the board from inverted to on its side.   It also gives the other crew time to lock on to the leeward shroud as the boat comes up. 

Modern boats with double bottoms all float high on their side and some older boats do so, such as Tasars with big side tanks.  Even Larks have been "improved"  with bigger tanks and float higher.   Add sealed masts or floatation equipment into the equation and capsizing in a big wind at sea is bad news.

I can't believe seeing "novices" using mast head floats on their RS700s etc and heading off to sea to practice alone.

If Bethwaite states  that  inverting is for safety, then we should listen very carefully.  I for one are in complete agreement and that is from someone who falls asleep at H & S briefings

I've been physically thrown off boats that have violently capsized and ended up 20 yards away from boat.  Being quick enough is not an issue.  The only thing that is quick is how fast one becomes separated from the boat.

Not if you have hull-bottom-depth foot wells for the boat's crew, which reduce the buoyancy in the capsized condition. A couple of bailers very quickly get rid of the water in the wells when upright and underway, aided by the flotation provided by the surrounding double-bottom.

A real bonus of this arrangement is that the crew members have their feet low during manoeuvres, greatly aiding stability and ease of just standing up, not to mention making it easy to get under a lower boom; the Fireball benefits from this aspect when the wind's honking. Not so good for running from wire to wire on skiffy boats, obviously, but we don't all sail those boats (or run across them if we do!)

True, but were the boats you were thrown from violently boats designed conservatively like the Omega, Stratos, etc? I've been thrown violently from my craft but wouldn't expect it from a craft which I was teaching from. Being quick enough on a High Performance boat varies extremely from being quick enough on a training boat. You have more time to react in a less high performance design, but my initial point is that sometimes that time is not long enough for people unfamiliar to the sport and that the mast head systems which the boats come out of the factory with don't increase the time for people to react to a long enough period, and up to a certain degree, give novices false confidence as they feel that the mast head systems are a fail safe for preventing the boat from inverting.

On the Vortex I ended up tying a snap-shackle to the end of the mainsheet and attaching it to the spreader bar on my harness. I used a snap shackle for safety as I wanted quick-release in an emergency. It's a boat that floats high and has a large windage on its side. I found that helped a lot.

Still confused Jim. I can see your point re a Moth but are you saying that both you and your crew/helm were thrown 20 yds from the Cherub? The person left behind generally acts as a pretty good sea-anchor. We have had some pretty violent pitchpoles on the Hurricane at 20+ kts but we have never had a case when we have both ended up seperated from the boat. Cats blow away faster than most but cat masts are sealed to slow inversion. Anyone who has tried to bring a Hurricane59 back from a turtle will know the effort involved.

From memory the Stratos has an open transom but also has "flood tanks"which enable the boat to sit lower in the water when on its side. The idea being that it would be easier to climb onto a lower centerboard. As soon as the boat is righted the water drains from these tanks into the cockpit and out the back.

Thrown 20 yards ... come on 3-4 yards perhaps ...

Even on the 18ft'er vids they don't go that far on a major wipe out ...

Rick

By the time both crew surface, make contact with each other and check where the boat is, it is very possible to end up 20 yards away.  

Maybe mast head floats are ok when used on small inland waters with rescue cover.   But out to sea in a decent breeze, in a boat where you may have to look after your self, then no way.  And a single hander with a mast float in these conditions - mad.

Well theres the answer lets all get oppis

great choice i always thought that those little kids were having all the fun.