Main halyard
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2504
Printed Date: 17 Aug 25 at 10:26pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Main halyard
Posted By: owain
Subject: Main halyard
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 3:56pm
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On our boat, weve always used a length of kevlar or dyneema as a halyard with a cleat at the bottom where thr halyard exits the mast. When we got our new fully rigged mast, it had the system with a wire strop and fitting which has about 10 teeth on it, and the strop fits over it. as far as i can tell, the only advantage of this system is that it dusent stretch, but weve never had a problem with the dyneema anyway? also weve used the new mast about 6 times, and the rope tail needs replaciing already, and we still havent managed to get as much tension as we did with the old system. The problem we find is that, to hook the strop on, the tail needs to be out of the way, but when we romove it, we always loos some tension. Why is this system fitted as standard? What system do other people use? After 2 years of using the old mast every weekend, we never had to replace the halyard. ------------- Owain H 49er GBR055 Fireball 14291 Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club |
Replies:
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:11pm
Halyards are for girls.
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Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:16pm
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I assume you mean the Fireball...(and I've got one too) Wire will stretch less than kevlar. Ideally you need a block under the halyard rack, so you do actually pull the tension on with the tail and hook the whole lot on the rack, before moving the tail out of the way. Make sure the cunno is right off, and someone is holding the boom up in such a way that the gooeneck fitting is above the gooseneck, and there is no leech tension. Put the gooseneck on after you have got the halyard sorted. Technically speaking your miansail head should not be above the black band anyway, so the tension is not vital. No-one really uses kevlar any more, we all use wire, halyard locks, or a 2:1 external hertzog setup.
------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:17pm
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How do you keep the main up on your 600 then? ------------- |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:24pm
Shhh!  ------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:28pm
He uses a Topper mast... ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:36pm
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Racks are better because they do not slip like cleats can - this is
less of a problem on Fireballs as you don't use downhaul like skiffs do
(ie huge purchase to depower). On my B14, the old ali rig has a cleat, but the new carbon stick has a rack. We use a 2:1 dyneema set up which has a loop spliced in the end to go over the rack. There is a block below the rack so you can hold tension on and hook it over. Come to think of it, my Contender is the same. The system is a complete pain if rigged the other way (a la Laser 2) where the halyard exits at the bottom of the mast in a sheave, you then pull the wire over the rack (hooks face upwards). Very difficult to get tension. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 4:55pm
ye, we have a block underneath, (without mentioning the compnay involved) the cowboys put the block slightly out of line, so the tail rubs on the the teeth as the main is pulled up. What we usually do, is my crew pulls it up as much as he can. then i put my thumb over the strop as it exits the mast, then remove the tail, so it dosent the in the way of the teeth, and then i hook the strop over the teeth, but it almost always slips. Ah well, the 49er comes soon, so wont be a problem for a while ------------- Owain H 49er GBR055 Fireball 14291 Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 5:19pm
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Ive yet to try the diddy rig actually TT, whats it like?
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Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 7:18pm
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I still use kevlar. With Dyneema/Spectra we used to find that the inner would creep (permanantly stretch) under tension, while the outer wouldn't leaving it shredded. Life expectancy of halyard 6 months, but at least you get a warning! Wire will always break on the upper splice due to the work hardening of the wire. stainless steel does not like to be flexed. Life expectancy of halyard 6 to 12 months, you get a warning if you're lucky!! If you can find a supplier of galvanised wire it would be better as it will not work harden, but will rust. Rust is however easily visible. I briefly tried a D12 halyard with an external 2:1. It twisted up dreadfully inside the mast, causing the splice to not emerge from the mast. makes a great kicker though! The kevlar one is now about a year old, looks good as new and doesn't slip. When it eventually breaks i might try a vectran one. kevlar is cheaper though |
Posted By: TeamFugu
Date Posted: 15 Dec 06 at 9:07pm
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Sorry but I missed the way the teeth point, up or down. If they point up, you can take the tail and go over the boom then back through the loop in the haliard to get a 2:1 and pull until it is over tight. Then drop the loop over the teeth. If it is the other way, do the same but thread it through one of the blocks at the base of the mast like the cunno or kicker blocks.
If you want to get tricky, you could make something with a hook that will get out of the way easy with some purchase on it to get that last little bit. It puts extra compression on the mast but for carbon sticks, it will take presure off the sail track at the head so the track might last longer. ------------- Live large, love life, and sail fast. Swift Sol Home, http://swiftsolo.com |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 9:55am
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Owain you need to pull harder you girl, but seriously the sail should never be above the black band should it ???? Charlie and i have made a bet of a crate of lager with olly and iain re abersoch week, do you and your crew want to come in on the bet? ------------- |
Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 10:21am
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if theres free beer involved me nd chris are in!! weve got 6months of training ahead of us, so be prepared for a thrashing ------------- Owain H 49er GBR055 Fireball 14291 Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 11:20am
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Good so your in for a bet first out of the 3 of us (iain, olly, Charlie and me, you and chris) Other 2 boats have to buy winners crate of lager, hopefully getting a new job so wont have to work weekends therefore 6 months practice with chandler. Bring on Abersoch 2007 ------------- |
Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 11:44am
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Boss training on the river? u wont know what to do with urselves when u get to the sea! ------------- Owain H 49er GBR055 Fireball 14291 Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 12:05pm
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Owain, Mark Asquith is selling Herzog for £1 a metre at http://www.49eronline.co.uk - www.49eronline.co.uk , might be worth a look as the stuff is brilliant for halyards, etc. (Site will also be usefull for the other boat too) ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 12:20pm
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Owain the river is a great place to practice it means that we will be silken with our tacking, gybing, faster at etting out on the wire and fitter. Not ideal though!! we will see anyway. are you doing the bloody mary in the 9er ------------- |
Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 1:07pm
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All depends on transport as were gettin a van sometime in january , but we pick up the 9er on the 6th, so wont have had any practice, hoping to sail at chew over the summer when were bk frm uni, coz chris lives at taunton in somerset. We shud all join, think they have a waiting list though ------------- Owain H 49er GBR055 Fireball 14291 Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 1:11pm
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What better place to get some quick learning practice then the bloody mary, i think iain is wettying out of it so you could always crew for olly ------------- |
Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 1:16pm
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I used to have the rack set-up on the Lark and have it on the contender. In both cases you hoist the sail to the black band with the boom off the gooseneck and then pull down on the boom to get tension. If you want masses of tension use the cunnigham to stretch the luff after hoisting you can then easily get the boom on and release the cunningham. You must remember to move the splice aside when you hook on the wire otherwise it will wear through V. quickly.
People that have problems with this set up seem to either want to hoist with the boom on the gooseneck/cunningham or kicker tight or over hoist the main so the swaged fitting is jammed into the top block. Another tip is to lubricate the luff / guide eitehr with silicon spray or candle wax - the sail goes up easier and so wears the rope tail less. BTW the rope tail should run against the rack if you have a lower turning block so you can easily hook the wire on. ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: owain
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 1:25pm
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Thanks for that garry, i think were going to adjust the block this afternoon. Russ, we shud try and all get to a assymetic event at grafham or sumwhere maybe in april or early summer. ------------- Owain H 49er GBR055 Fireball 14291 Plymouth Uni Sailing Club & Chelmarsh Sailing Club |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 3:03pm
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Well arnt there a few TASER events coming up ??? ------------- |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 3:33pm
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I'm thinking of changing from a wire/rack to a rope/cleat system as I find either the wire or the rope is constantly fraying which annoys me and threatens to break inside the mast just when you don't want it to (ie 15 mins before the first start). If you start with the rope a metre too long you can cut 200mm off every few months to pretty much garantee it wont fail. My first Contender had rope/cleat and I've always wanted to go back to it. If you use 2 cleats in line then they both seems to last ok. But you do need to have them out of line of the turning block so that they don't burn the cams when you're pulling the halyard fast for the first bit of the hoist. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: olly_love
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 6:06pm
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do u guys mean TASA or TAZER the boat ------------- TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 8:01pm
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Of course you meant TASA or Tasar. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Worthy
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 9:23pm
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On cats there is a hook at the top of the mast you hook the main onto so that the halyard doesn't take any tension whilst sailing. This is because of the very high cunningham/downhall loads we put on the sails. Just wondering if any mono's use a similar system? ------------- |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 16 Dec 06 at 9:27pm
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errm ive seen a similar system on some 505 where a furel on the wire goes into a catch at the top of the mast the guys with this system took a while to get the knack of it but once they did it seemed really good. means they have a rope halyard and then a really sort bit of wire which is gona strech very little! ------------- 
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 12:09am
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same system as used on sonars just in reverse with a lot less wire
------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 10:51am
| Halyard locks have been around for donkeys, the idea being to reduce compression loads on the mast. My spare finn mast has one, but my good one has been modified to an internal halyard with a cleat on the front of the mast. |
Posted By: Merlinboy
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 2:14pm
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You all know what i mean TASA, i feel very embarassed now ------------- |
Posted By: Charlie
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 6:37pm
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My Finn mast has the lock at the top, thought about internal halyard,
but i reckon it'd mess up the mast characteristics putting it under
tension.
------------- Finn GBR 657 - Blown It Laser 164635 Planet Earth: 30% Land, 70% race course! |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 7:28pm
Yeah there is a waiting list but i think you can just sail there and pay per day ------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk">  BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 8:31pm
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The Tasar has a halyard lock because it's a wing(ish) rotating mast so the halyard tention would either change as the mast rotated or stop it rotating at all. Some of the Aussie Contender guys use them as well so the mast can be sealed to slow an inversion. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: olly_love
Date Posted: 17 Dec 06 at 8:53pm
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my 14 mast has a wire one and a rack at the base of the mast am going to change it tho cause i reccon that it messes up the bend charatistics ------------- TWO FRANK-Hunter Impala |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 18 Dec 06 at 12:12am
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Halyards? What are they? ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 18 Dec 06 at 1:26am
It sthe string you pull the kite up with. |
Posted By: FireballNeil
Date Posted: 18 Dec 06 at 3:45pm
| HAHA he got you there! |