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New Classes Wish List

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2262
Printed Date: 17 Aug 25 at 6:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: New Classes Wish List
Posted By: Chew my RS
Subject: New Classes Wish List
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 3:27pm

Rather than a never ending supply of copycat SMODs, how about the following six new restricted development classes.  Sure, it doesn't catch all demographics, but it gets the majority.  Note:  Where kites are mentioned I mean asymmetrics.  Rules should prohibit developments that increase cost, complexity or difficulty e.g. no fixed ruddes, so that retain the appealing SMOD-like simplicity. 

F1 - Singlehanded class, one sail, no trapeze.  Based on Moth rules before they went narrow, foil-borne and beyond the ability/expense/hassle of the club racer.  Two sail sizes proposed, one for Laser size sailors, one for radial size folk.  Bytes, Europes, Streakers etc would be grandfathered in.

F2 - Singlehander with kite and trapeze, like MPS and 700, both of which would measure.  That way you get to sail together in bigeger fleets.

F3 - Two man boat, no kite or trapeze.  Like a N12, but able to carry a bit more weight and with more modern rig rules.  NS14?

F4 - Two man, kite, no trapeze.  RS400 style dev class (or Merlin with asymmetric).

F5 - Two man, kite, one trapeze.  SImilar to L4000 and ISO, both of which would qualify.

F6 - As F5 but supersized, for the growing number of 15+stone sailors.

 

 



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Replies:
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 3:50pm
where does a 600 go?


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Josh Preater

http://www.bu22.co.uk">BUZZING IS FUN



Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by MRJP BUZZ 585

where does a 600 go?


whack a kite on the front and grab a snorkel and full face helmet...


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Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 4:17pm

And Contender

Single hander with Trapeze - we are not all sailing gods capable of having the tiller extension in one hand, the main sheet in another and the spinaker sheet in a third!!

 

 



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When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss

Crew on 505 8780



Posted By: bovlike
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 4:31pm

what about the 14? or the 18?

 

you have nothing there for two or three stringing?????



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Ian (Bov) Turnbull
18ft Skiff Ronstan UK
http://www.ianturnbullmarine.co.uk - Chandlery, tapered ropes and specialist solutions for sailors who demand the best - BovBoats.co.uk


Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 4:35pm
seems a boit daft to say we dont want more identicit boats and then list 5 catregories where there are alreay loads of boats that fit most of the categories in most ways.

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Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Contender 541

And Contender

Single hander with Trapeze - we are not all sailing gods capable of having the tiller extension in one hand, the main sheet in another and the spinaker sheet in a third!!

I like to think of my self as a sailing god (I'm not but I can dream) but I couldnot aford to replace a spinaker and related kit on a regular bases hence the appleal of the contender 



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Lark 2170


Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 7:09pm

What about singlehanded mono rigged hiking boat for people who like more sail than a Laser?

The reason there's so many boats out there is because they're right for someone. Whilst I can see the problem with the dilution of the sport into too many classes, the range of boats out there actually helps keep people in the sport. I was fundamentally bored of sailing Lasers and almost gave up sailing. Then I bought a 300 and am hopelessely addicted.

 



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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital
ingredient in beer.


Posted By: Rob.e
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 7:56pm

I gave up sailing for 12 years cos I was bored with it, and came back when I realised how exciting some of the new classes were. For me it is a shame the most new development now is in the plastic washing up bowl department, but actually these robust and accessable boats must be good for newcomers to the sport, and therefore must be good for the sport!

(I mean they must be, mustn't they? I can't believe it really, but...) Anyway, I know it would be nice if we could all agree and sail the same thing, but people actually want the choice, and loose interest if they can't find exactly what they want. The paradox of modern sailing: more choice = more people sailing.



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Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 02 Oct 06 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Chew my RS

Rather than a never ending supply of copycat SMODs, how about the following six new restricted development classes.  Sure, it doesn't catch all demographics, but it gets the majority.  Note:  Where kites are mentioned I mean asymmetrics.  Rules should prohibit developments that increase cost, complexity or difficulty e.g. no fixed ruddes, so that retain the appealing SMOD-like simplicity. 

F1 - Singlehanded class, one sail, no trapeze.  Based on Moth rules before they went narrow, foil-borne and beyond the ability/expense/hassle of the club racer.  Two sail sizes proposed, one for Laser size sailors, one for radial size folk.  Bytes, Europes, Streakers etc would be grandfathered in.

F2 - Singlehander with kite and trapeze, like MPS and 700, both of which would measure.  That way you get to sail together in bigeger fleets.

F3 - Two man boat, no kite or trapeze.  Like a N12, but able to carry a bit more weight and with more modern rig rules.  NS14?

F4 - Two man, kite, no trapeze.  RS400 style dev class (or Merlin with asymmetric).

F5 - Two man, kite, one trapeze.  SImilar to L4000 and ISO, both of which would qualify.

F6 - As F5 but supersized, for the growing number of 15+stone sailors.

No two man kite Twin  trapeze   like the 49er?



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49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Offshoretiger
Date Posted: 03 Oct 06 at 10:53am

And why get rid of all symetric kites? That would get rid of your 3 largest 2 handed national fleets in a oner *

Or did you just never learn to gybe a reguler kite yet?

 

* (I havent checked my figures so I could be wrong)

Edit - OK I checked, I was wrong but mainly on which classes I thought were top



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...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......


Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 03 Oct 06 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by Offshoretiger

And why get rid of all symetric kites? That would get rid of your 3 largest 2 handed national fleets in a oner *

Or did you just never learn to gybe a reguler kite yet?

 

* (I havent checked my figures so I could be wrong)

Edit - OK I checked, I was wrong but mainly on which classes I thought were top



RS200 is the largest 2 handed class for 2006 nats. attendences. The 2nd and 3rd adult 2 man classes are the Neterprize and Firefly. No symettric boats in the top 3 2-man classes (not counting junior classes)


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Posted By: Offshoretiger
Date Posted: 03 Oct 06 at 1:25pm

Originally posted by Harry44981!

[QUOTE=Offshoretiger]
RS200 is the largest 2 handed class for 2006 nats. attendences. The 2nd and 3rd adult 2 man classes are the Neterprize and Firefly. No symettric boats in the top 3 2-man classes (not counting junior classes)

True. Like I say I didnt check figures before I posted. But then 5&6 on the overall list were Mirror and Cadet, both of which do have a symetric kite. And the Enterpirise dosent have a kite at all.

My point basicly was that to right of all symetric kites would right of the fireball and the 5o5. And a comparison of there average nationals numbers from the Y&Y table gives Fireball 64 and 5o5 41 against Laser 4000 53 and Iso 31. Not to mention that both sym classes mentioned above have held worlds in the UK in the last 2 years with over 100 boats at each.......

So for 2 handed single wire boats getting rid of all symetric spiniker boats might be a little bit stupid, dont you think?



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...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!......


Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 03 Oct 06 at 10:48pm

"F6 - As F5 but supersized, for the growing number of 15+stone sailors."

 

So all the proposed classes are for dwarves and the F6 is for small people...

What about an F7...for say 240kg crew weight - so that your average rugby forward can go sailing with a team mate. I suppose you could allow the lightweights to sail 3 up. At las a class with promotional T shirts that fit!

 

Gordon

 

 

 



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Gordon


Posted By: Scooby_simon
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 8:52am

As Les says; no 2 string boat

NO CATS !!!!!!!!!

Cat1 - Box rule 16 footer; single handed and 2 up - F16

Cat2 - Box rule 2 up boat 18 footer - F18, but a  much lighter version at around 130kg

Cat3 - Box rule development class 20 footer- Tornado; maybe shedding a few KG.

Cat4 - Single hander - VERY limited development A class.



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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

As Les says; no 2 string boat

NO CATS !!!!!!!!!

Cat1 - Box rule 16 footer; single handed and 2 up - F16

Cat2 - Box rule 2 up boat 18 footer - F18, but a  much lighter version at around 130kg

Cat3 - Box rule development class 20 footer- Tornado; maybe shedding a few KG.

Cat4 - Single hander - VERY limited development A class.

Except that this is the Dinghy forum. Try the Dinghy Multihulls forum for that sort of argument, sorry, 'discussion'...



Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

NO CATS !!!!!!!!!

Well no, you already have all you need with the Formulas and the Open Classes, A B and C, although admittedly the B class is moribund owing to no-one ever having designed a better B class than the Tornado...


Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 12:19pm

Surely we have most of the list...Small person's development classes, N12 and Cherub, bigger person's Merlin and I14. We have no slower Asymmetric development class, maybe because at slower speeds a symmetric kite is better. Then there are the aussie skiff designs waiting to be adopted for bigger boats. I'm sure 2 up in a 16' skiff would do 2 rugby forwards...

Singlehanded development classes are less well represented, so maybe room for some more boats there...



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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686


Posted By: Charlie
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 12:39pm

So out of the olympic boats, only the Laser and Europe would be able to compete in these classes.

Now which does that say more about, the classes for the olympics, or the proposed class list?

Though there is no heavy bastard single man hiking boat represented in your list



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Finn GBR 657 - Blown It
Laser 164635
Planet Earth: 30% Land, 70% race course!


Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 5:57pm
Well as the Europe isn't an Olympic boat anymore, you can knock it out of that list of two.... Although you probably ought to add the Laser Radial....
Don't see why you would have to specify an asymmetric spinnaker.... why tie yourself down....


Posted By: Chew my RS
Date Posted: 04 Oct 06 at 7:56pm

Maybe I didn't explain myself properly.  I didn't include a twin string class, cats or symmetric kite boats, because these classes already exist.  I'm not trying to get rid of existing classes, just limit the amount of new ones emerging (and combining some of the smaller,similar, existing ones).  II was thinking that it would be good if the ISO and L4000 (for example - ) measured under the same rule, so they raced together, not seperately.  For a variety of reasons I don't see symmetric kites being commercially viable on new designs and yet they have a speed advantage on non high performance boats.  Hence they would be banned.

If you want a F8 for rugby types, that's fine by me.




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