Ronstan SK4
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2244
Printed Date: 17 Aug 25 at 6:45am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ronstan SK4
Posted By: Skiffman
Subject: Ronstan SK4
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 3:04pm
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Has anyone else seen this sailing at Stokes Bay?
length: 13ft Main/Jib: 17sqm Kite: 30sqm This boat is insane, at first it looks similar to a i14/12ft skiff but it not! The hull is at least a metre wide and then it has at least 60cm racks on each side. The boat weighs 45kgs and has a t-foil on the rudder. Its quick too, on sunday it was going as quick as a 49er going as quick as it could go and it still had more speed left in it. This was in 12-14knots of breeze when 49ers are not exactly slow. Apprently it is going to be a one design and should cost about 9000.
------------- 49er GBR5 http://www.teamfletcherandsign.co.uk - teamfletcherandsign.co.uk Team Fletcher and Sign campaign site |
Replies:
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 4:59pm
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It has some damn sexy sails on it! (if sails can be described as sexy)
------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 5:20pm
| Looks awesome |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 5:31pm
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i want a go. ive seen it in another thread, it looked wider than you say. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: far canal
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 5:35pm
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as for can sails be called sexy
Yes ! |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 6:30pm
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Ive often dreamed of having a huge pair of hooters on my kite lol
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 6:35pm
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I want a burberry kite - that would be thoroughly amusing to see pop up mid fleet... ------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 7:14pm
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Looks awsome
------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk">  BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 7:32pm
notice anything similar....?  ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 7:41pm
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At £9k it's hardly going to trouble the Cherubs, in fact it might be a good for the class in the long term. Hard to see what the point of the boat is though when you have the Cherub, 29er(xx) and 12" skiff all competing for a limited number of people. |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 7:53pm
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yeah that's what i was thinking, where does it fit into the existing market? It seems to me that it's probably slower than a 49er, less versitile than a cherub/12ft skiff  BUT it does look sexy! ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 7:56pm
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Umm... its not going to be slower than a 49er. Trust me, when it comes to skiffs the 49er isn't that extreme, especially when you see the beam of this one (its roughly the same as an 18 footer). ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:12pm
Humm... Cherub 'v' 29erXX - both aimed at very different people. Cherub is a development class with the focus on your own ideas within a frame work of rules to allow creativity at low cost. 29erXX - is a SMOD aimed at the Women Olympic slot and one design racing. And actually these days probably a slightly lighter crew weight. 12 ft Skiff is a almost no holds barred development class with a strong aspect on sponsorship / entertainment written into the rules, and is massively expensive and is best suited to big macho muscle men. The SK4 is taking the lightweight skiff ethic to the next logical stage. Pushing the boundaries of this idea for light to mid weight mixed crews (Kevin sales with his girlfriend) with in a one design concept? So the first 3 classes don't compete for the same market. But the SK4 covers all 3 in one swoop. In an exciting new, ultra fast, maybe even average strength mid market package. To me this SK4 isn't pointless, and knowing Kevin as a successful business man that he is I'm sure it isn't. ( I just read that back and it sounded like a rant - but is isn't honest - it's just what I think ) ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:16pm
PROVE IT!! Bet you it will be slower round a course than a 49er!!  ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:20pm
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what kind of weight range is it aimed at??
------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:22pm
If you imagine your ultimate boat, then look around and see what fits, thats when you realise there is a gap in the market... Tim, the rig was ordered at the same time as Will and Lucy's boat from the same makers, hence the similarity. The areas are not the same. 12 footers are big peoples boats at the end of it, you need the pies to hold the rag down. This was intended to be a lightweights boat hence the large righting moment. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:29pm
Yeah... here's hoping my adjustable rack Cherub will be just that. 
Almost ready to talk turkey Mr Aardvark. Just need to get the woodburning stove fitted first. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Skiffman
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:03pm
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princebuster - we sailed against it in a 49er on sunday in 12-14knots and it was going as quick upwind maybe slightly higher and the same speed downwind again sometimes a bit deeper. The only disadvantage is that it is not as quick tacking or gybing as a 49er but then its early days yet. I think there is a gap in the market, there are not many boats if any (other than cats) that can go as quick as a 49er with a crew weight of 135kg that is easier to sail and can be sailed fast by the older generation (older than alot of 49er sailors) ------------- 49er GBR5 http://www.teamfletcherandsign.co.uk - teamfletcherandsign.co.uk Team Fletcher and Sign campaign site |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:35pm
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Oh no another gap in the market ... ------------- |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 11:07pm
Ah don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to make any digs at it or say that the cherub is better in any way at all. Was merely an observation that maybe Will and Kevin sometimes chat on the phone about boat related things ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 11:09pm
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------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 11:18pm
I wonder where they all got the idea from (2003photo...) 
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Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 11:21pm
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I don't see your point Jim, neither Atom Bom or the Skiff have wooden decks ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 11:03am
Funny I don't see much similarity between a 29er rig and what Will and Kevin are doing, what do you mean Jim?  ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 12:31pm
It's 13 feet long and 14 feet wide? |
Posted By: Tornado_ALIVE
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 2:31pm
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That's dam wide for a 13 footer.
But in the old days Chris, the 18 footers were 28 foot across
------------- 
http://www.formula18alive.com - www.formula18alive.com |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 5:49pm
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Back in the day! And I thought that the 18 I'm sailing is extreme, but at 14 ft beam the Murray's don't really compare. The B18's really were ridiculous, no wonder they spent a large proportion of their time upside down... ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 5:58pm
It is similar proportions - so not as wide, but it looks like one. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 6:14pm
What on earth makes you think that. Uposide down loses races. I also think you're getting confused about 18footer versions. The really wide ones were the GP 18s. A B18 is a Bethwaite design, much more moderate, after the costs of the GP era had left the class in a somewhat difficult state... Chris has a good post on the subject in this thread: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2159&PN=1&TPN=4 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2 159&PN=1&TPN=4 |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 6:34pm
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woah! Only exaggerating for effect Jim, I don't actually think they spent more time capsized than they did upright. True I am confused about the 18 footer designs though, I always thought the wide ones were the B18's. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 4:29am
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Widest 18 ever was Bradmill, in her configuration for the "worlds" off Brisbane in '84/'85. By this time most boats were about 18-18ft6 wide. Bethwaite's two man Primes was up to 8.1m (26ft6in) wide at this time I think. The "pencils" (inspired by the two-man boats but using 3 lightweights instead of 2 crew) were 21 feet wide. For the "worlds", boats extended their wings expecting steady winds and then Brownie and others stepped their wings out even further during the regatta. Brownie ended up at 32' wingspan. Chesty Bond was about 30 feet, but under the greatly increased loads she snapped two centreboards and Brownie won clearly. It was already realised that width was a problem and then the limit of 22 feet was brought in at the Sydney clubs. I think this also applied to the first series of Grand Prix events about '87. From '87/88 wingspan was reduced to 18ft, later (by '91 at least) 17ft I think. In '87/'88 the Bethwaite B18 arrived. In its early form the wingspan was 13ft8in because it was a trainer. By '88/89 the full-on Bethwaite Grand Prix boat was at the maximum wing width; ie by 1991 it was 17ft wide. The League 18s are now 14ft wide. |
Posted By: skslr
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 7:24am
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I changed from an too short int14 to a comfortably long RS800 (16') and am
asking myself why this boat is even shorter than an int14.
Yes, they seem to save some weight on the hull but
is it worth all the hassle caused by the handbrake on the rudder (T-foil) that
they seem to need for compensating the short hull?
(People returning to the beach in an onshore force
5 and ugly chop do not look very happy when they have to care for
rudder blade and foils...)
The RS800 kite is definitely on the small end of
things but otherwise I do not really see an advantage, especially as the RS800
goes really well with lightweight crews down to 110 kg.
Please discuss!
|
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 8:48am
That's because not everyone agrees with you on that. An I14 is too big, long and heavy for some folk, who find for them short boats are more fun. |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 9:05am
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I like the look of SK4 but unless it performed radically differently to the 14, I'd probably hedge my bets and move towards the 14 if I went down the development class route. The 14 has a well established class so that's what I'd be looking at first. Saying that, if the SK4 started running with 12 rigs that would sway my judgement completely but would probably still stay with the 49er because it ticks more boxes about what I'd like from the boat I sail. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 10:26am
If you like sailing at Itchenor.
Exactly what is a 12 rig - you can have anything you want. SK4 has what could be described as a No2 12-ft skiff rig. If you mean multi-rigs that would be interesting idea for a One Design to take on. All be it enormously expensive idea. [QUOTE=49erGBR735HSC] but would probably still stay with the 49er because it ticks more boxes about what I'd like from the boat I sail. [/ QUOTE] I suppose you should sail it first before making that decision. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 11:36am
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Should have been more clearer, what I meant about 12 rigs is the versatility of having the 3 rigs like the 12 class has, big rig, medium rig, small rig etc, but in such an instance, the design breif that seems to be coming through from what has already been said is light-weight OD, so it does seem very doubtful. What would be interesting for us is having the option of putting a No.1 skiff rig on the boat whilst sailing out of class but even then, doubt the boat would be accepted to race alongside the 12 foot skiffs so it would be very limited to what could be achieved sailing the boat with a bigger rig. Although I haven't sailed the SK4, how the boat performs would only be part of my consideration when judging the boat. Class structure and standard of racing would come very highly too, hence the reason I said my current class ticks more boxes. The boat may be an absolute rocket ship but if there isn't widely available people to race against and a well established circuit, it wouldn't genearate too much of my interest but that's my personal opinion. Hope the boat is very successful though and does establish a good fleet because it does look like a cracking design. If it's aimed to take on the 29er XX, it definately gets my vote. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 12:12pm
While I love the 800 (will be crewing on soon) it is not in the same league as 14s, (new) cherubs and probably the new sk4 in terms of downwind performance and not as challenging to sail.
I wish my 14 was as easy to gybe as an 800...
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Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 2:28pm
Amen to that ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 4:56pm
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even i can sail an 800, ive only sailed hiking boats before but i am comfortable crewing on an 800. i doubt id be able to jump into a 14 or one of these anywhere near as easily. ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 5:16pm
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The 800 is used by Sunsail and god knows most of their clients know less about sailing than a small kitten, cant see a int14 ever being used by a sailing school. (please prove me wrong I'll work for them for free Although have suggested that a friend of mine uses moths for stage 1, but only if i can watch with a beer and not be envolved. I mentioned this to a Coach and they didnt say it was a bad idea.
------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 6:20pm
Truth. I worked for sunsail and the big ego guests with no clue taking the 800 out were funny as hell to watch. I cannot see a 14 ever being a sailing school boat either! |
Posted By: CurlyBen
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 9:35pm
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The sunsail 800s are a little different from a proper 800 - they are single trapeze version with an aluminium mast. Where I was working it was much, much less sketchy to have an inexperienced crew in the 800 than something like a 4000!
------------- RS800 GBR848 Weston SC |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 28 Sep 06 at 11:18pm
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I ended up sailing the 29er after work since without the second wire and the scaffold pole of a mast made the strong gusty wind you get in Turkey horrible and very hard work to deal with. |
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 29 Sep 06 at 11:08am
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Some one where I worked put an extra trapez on the 800 and think that the mast was standard. ------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 29 Sep 06 at 1:03pm
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We wanted to but were not allowed Instead we resurrected an old spice as a staff boat so we could at least twin wire something. The Spice was deemed by sunail as dangerous apparently and was pulled from all centres |
Posted By: E.J.
Date Posted: 29 Sep 06 at 4:52pm
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old spice! the aftershave? ------------- |