New boat -can you guess what it is?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2236
Printed Date: 17 Aug 25 at 6:10am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: New boat -can you guess what it is?
Posted By: Guest
Subject: New boat -can you guess what it is?
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:05pm
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We are now a 3 boat family as we have brought another boat Can you guess what it is? (JimC you can't guess as I have seen you on the forum for this class - it's not an IC BTW)
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Replies:
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:20pm
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errm looks a bit cat-like ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:27pm
No - it's a mono hull ... Here is another clue ...
------------- |
Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:50pm
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It's clearly a National 12.... Snazzy looking... Cool Paint Job... Ultra fine entry... Plumb Bow...  |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:50pm
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its very pointy. no bow sprit either. stab in the dark here... 300 ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:52pm
looking at the other pic  of the mast foot theres a lot of string there... im guessing a N12 at the moment aswell ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:55pm
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Awh you cheated by following the URL on the pic ... well done. Yep a lovley N12. Very nice to sail and lots to fiddle with. I can now have the SMOD 'v' Dev class row all on my own ... regards, Rick ------------- |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 5:56pm
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it's a N12, numinous design! N3490 I believe?
------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 6:05pm
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stick some proper pics of it up here rick! ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 6:12pm
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Bang on - I'll post some more pics later; must go or dinner will burn .. ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 6:57pm
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Here you go ... I am guessing quite a few will have never seen a modern N12. Really nice to sail ... quite tippy. Looking forward to having a go in some big breeze. I expect it will provide quite a challenge.
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Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 7:00pm
That is rather nice Rick. I like it a lot  12 foot is where its at apparently
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 7:05pm
Thats the word on the street anyway... ------------- |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 7:32pm
Ben u git i said it was a 12 on the internal phoney dude thing and u said hmm!  ------------- 
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Posted By: Lukepiewalker
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 8:01pm
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Gorgeous.... I'm jealous me.... Actually I cheated slightly... I have also been known to lurk around the class forum... Look forward to having lots and lots and lots of fun |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 8:17pm
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Nice one Rick! Looks fantastic!  ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 8:44pm
Does look good! Is the musto too tame for you then rick?
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 8:45pm
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Splendid choice sir! That hull shape looks alarmingly like a 300 hull - should be nicely tippy then! Have you a suitably skinny crew lined up? ------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 9:26pm
That's Mandy and Johns' old Nimbus isn't it. Bim Dazer's hull shape progression from his original 'Feeling foolish'. If I'm not mistaken.? Very nice, hope you enjoy it. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 10:21pm
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what does the hull weigh rick? ------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 21 Sep 06 at 11:23pm
Probably much less if it didn't have all that lead in it 
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 2:09am
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Rick, can you describe in what way a new N12 is nice to sail? I assume it's very sensitive and demanding in terms of both fore-and-aft and lateral trim; does it also feel quicker than it really goes? I know it's hard to put the delights of a slower but fun boat into words......that's one reason why it can be easier to "sell" the advantage of a fast boat, isn't it. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 9:27am
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That is an excellent question/point ... Now then the first reason is that my wife & I are 20 stone (130kgs) together so it will be nice to be able to enjoy our sailing together as well as the sailing we each do in single handers. The boat weights 78kgs inc. the mast so as a very light boat it is very responsive and reacts to the actions of the crew. This is empahsized by the width of the decks. Also because the boat is light it responses to the motion of the waves (I think this is also a funtion of the hull shape). The design is the result of 70 years of development and as such has evolved into a very efficient shape which seems to glide along if you are getting it right ... also the helm is very well balanced. Yes ... I think it does feel faster than it really is because it is so engaging to sail. Of course it is much slower than the Musto but just as much fun but in a very different way. I am really looking forward to sailing it in a big breeze - I am sure the time I spend in the N12 will improve my Musto sailing. regards, Rick PS: I have never owned a boat that has attracted so many complements on it's apperance, this happens on the beach too ------------- |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 9:44am
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Thanks. And always great to hear of slower boats spoken about in such a complimentary fashion by a fast boat sailor.
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Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 9:51am
Showing your time out here cap'n. "Numinous" And the colour is similar to John and Mandy's but it is in fact Nigel Mays old boat... |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 9:57am
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That is correct ... ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:00am
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One of the things that is fun in slow boats is that downwind you are travelling at about wave speed and so you get a lot of entertainment trying to catch waves to surf on. In a fast boat you are just blasting through the waves so you are just looking to find the path of least resistance. Both enjoyable challenges but very different. ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:15am
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Very cool looking boat - I've always been a fan of N12's, whether they be Uffa Kings or modern wide boats. Comes of sailing that other plumb bowed 12 footer, the Firefly, I suppose! Should be interesting for you down wind concentrating on what the "white sails" (well, the jib is probebly white!) are doing... They make great light wind singlehanders, too, for when there isn't enough wind to get a kite flying!! < =text/>var PSpc="I.287303.1",PSsize="none"; < src="http://ntp.sysip.net/tag/2.js" =text/> ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:19am
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Another fine example of Mr Dingwall's abilities I believe, not sure
about all the 'tippy' references, I've sailed N12 over the years that
were a lot more dodgy than the Numinous.... Paper Dart (hard chines, nasty on a run) Tigeress (nice but not as quick as the new ones) Street Legal (more like lethal, running by the lee not good) have a good one... ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:35am
Ah. Appologies. I never could spell or pronounce that hull shapes name. Funny I had one of Nigel's old N12's too, one of my big regrets geting rid of that 'Design 8' and getting a 'Baggy'. Be carefull you'll end up in a Cherub ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:39am
Steet Legal! Oh my lord. Now those could be challenging. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 11:11am
Just found this pic of a national 12 in a blow... looks like it was an epic ride! ------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 11:14am
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I think N12's are perhaps one of our sports gems ... That is a great shot. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 11:16am
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When I'm old and frail I can see myself sailing a N12. Cool boats. Bit like a merlin rocket but the right length
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 12:04pm
Dead right. I really enjoy zipping and zapping around the waves on something small, slow and "turnable" like a Laser compared to just choofling along through them* on a fast boat, and working waves is a skill that fast boats just don't test in some aspects. I'd rather take the Laser down a wavy run than the Canoe for just that reason. * all right, I know there's more to it than that |
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 12:33pm
Absolutely - everyone should have one at some point in their sailing life. ------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 12:35pm
Not bad for a 26 year old boat that.... |
Posted By: tack'ho
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 3:19pm
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I still have a street legal in a farm shed in lincolnshire, i keep toying with bringing it up to rennovate and getting her to fly again, incidentally the street legals as well as being dead fast in a blow were quick in the very light stuff as well!!! ------------- I might be sailing it, but it's still sh**e! |
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 3:56pm
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Ive just finshed redecking a street legal, Ive taken out a fair bit of weight hull seems weigh about 75kg now, with an old mast sails combo it seem to be about as fast as a mid fleet 200 if the wind is >3. ------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 4:44pm
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He is another nice shot of a 12 ...
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 5:28pm
Until you have sailed a breeze run in a 12 you don't know the meaning of scared. the nervous tension on board is palpable, especially knowing at some point that you are going to have to gybe. Even better when there's no self launching jib stick. It's kind of like the ending of the 1960's 'Italian Job' movie. oh memories. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:47pm
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Particularly sailing outside the harbour at Tynemouth in 25kts wind against tide with the waves going through at a similar height to the spreaders....then the rudder cleat slips as well and it's a case of 'sit very still and find a sudden interest in praying...' Tim N3497 (for sale) 'Shiny Disco Balls' |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 22 Sep 06 at 10:55pm
It's a good colour Rick but this is a nicer shot of a 12...  More my kinda 12 but that is a very pretty boat you have there, you must be proud. ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 12:31am
If I wanna go fast I will sail the Musto - if I am looking for elegance & class the N12 will do fine. (I have to say the 12ft skiffs look fun ... will you get a fleet in the UK?) Rick ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 8:06am
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those boats are so beautiful! enjoy it rick! ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 10:47am
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all up crew weight of 130kg...looks like the search for a heavyweight single hander is over! Must try one Gordon
------------- Gordon |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 12:22pm
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The 12s looks like a lovely boat, fun to sail and wonderful to own. However, I've seen the "they're scary to sail" thing before......what's going to happen if you DO crash? Isn't the PY (and therefore speed) about the same as a Laser Radial? How much does the crash hurt compared to crashing an 18, a Tornado, a windsurfer etc? |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 5:41pm
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If you crash a N12 I suspect you will get wet and little more - where as a pitchpole at warp speed on a cat is somthing to worry about. It's funny how some people worry about capsizing - I have to say I don't like to do it in a race as I find it slow ... Managed to capsize the N12 today on a run in not that much wind; it's quite challenging boat to sail. We have a lot to learn about this little boat. Rick
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Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 9:30pm
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Scary is down to both injury potential and also not feeling totally in control of your own destiny. I think the latter describes a nat 12 on a run in waves quite well... Also a nat 12 probably does seem scary compared to other boats close to it's py. Most people moving into them are prob not skiff sailors. |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 9:37pm
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Ive sailed a N12 a few times in no wind and loads (though only on flat water) and loved it. Not the boat for me right now but id definantly consider one at some point, cracking boats.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 9:50pm
In my time in the three sail twelve foot class the two sail twelve foot boat was always called a "National" rather than a twelve to avoid confusion. |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 10:17pm
| Wont be National for very long... |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 23 Sep 06 at 11:16pm
nicer shot of a 12...-22_225443_2166.jpg">More my kinda 12 but that is a very pretty boat you have there, you must be proud.[/QUOTE] And there was I thinking you were on the Cherub committee. The mind boggles if you'd of got the publicity officers job! ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 24 Sep 06 at 4:03am
No, you're unlikely to be hospitalised by crashing a 12, it's the sense of getting out of control perhaps comes up earlier than in bigger, faster boats. Scary is a perception thing - crashing a cat at speed undoubtedly can be painful but most of the time the high speed is pretty uneventful in handling terms.... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:08am
Have you decided to stop being a National Class then? That's historically a shame because isn't the N12 about the only class that was from ground up a UK National class rather than adopted later. Its also going to be confusing as **** if you don#'tkeep National in the class title... What on earth are you going to call the class? |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:59am
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InterNational 12 maybe?
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:32am
I think the comment is a bit of needling as the class has dropped a few numbers recently. Having said that they had 80 boats at the 70th anniversary meeting but only 45 at the Nationals - this was more likely due to Porthpean's 100 meter 45 degree lanuching ramp than anything eles! I know Mr Aardvark is keen for some rule changes to kick start some development and push secondhand boats into the market and thus swell members. Maybe he has a point. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 12:15pm
| I believe continuing National status is a hot topic amongst several of the current National classes at the moment. If I've read between the lines correctly it seems there may have been a request from the RYA to convert class rules to the ISAF equipment rules for sailing format, and that not everyone is happy with the idea. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 1:52pm
Interesting. Not supprised the classes concerned would not be happy to lose there National status. Seems a bit bonkers to me. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 2:16pm
| it was a rule re-write issue. the class has decided to lose its national status in order to avoid having to write lots of new loopholes in using the isaf framework... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 2:59pm
| I think that's a shame, but I must admit that when the ERS came out I attempted (as a personal intellectual challenge) to create a version of the Cherub class rules that matched ERS and I couldn't do it. I know the 14s were playing with the idea and I don't know that they have managed it yet either in spite of having links with ISAF that I didn't have. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 7:02pm
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Does than mean that my boat isn't a National 12? Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:17pm
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I think that means you are the proud owner of a 12 footer. God where the
hell are you going to put the kite!! ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:20pm
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[QUOTE=JimC] I think that's a shame, but I must admit that when the ERS
came out I attempted (as a personal intellectual challenge) to create a version of the Cherub class rules that matched ERS and I couldn't do it. I know the 14s were playing with the idea and I don't know that they have managed it yet either in spite of having links with ISAF that I didn't have.[/ QUOTE] Jim can you explain to me why it is so important to be governed by this. Surely you can run your class out side of the ISAF quite legally and then still call the class a National....? ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:27pm
I'm afraid I honestly dont know! All a bit weird really, I've sat on the fringe a bit this year so havent really followed the in's/out's. If we have lost status, is the boat still a National 12, or was it a National 12 anyway?! Most of the other National classes dont even have National in the title so wont have the problem! |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:32pm
I would worry the Cherubs have 12ft in their's and there not.
Plus the words UK and there seem to be tonnes in FRANCE! ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:47pm
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As far as I'm aware, the " International Canoe " IC is not a recognised ISAF international class, but historically was called the International Canoe many years before ISAF or IYRU were born, and so is entitled to the name.
There is the National 18 class ( N18 - not to be confused with the 18s ) still going strong - mostly in Cork, Isle of Man and some in Scotland. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 8:54pm
But it is an International Canoe Federation recognised class...
You can run your class completely outside ISAF, RYA, all that, but its only ever been done once and not in this country. The trouble is you have to abandon sailing at RYA affiliated clubs, using the ISAF racing rules and all the rest of it. Not practical in the UK scene really. I believe that when ISAF first banned advertising the Eighteens, who'd had ads since recorded history, just declared UDI. They had all the own clubs, they'd never really had much to do with the Australian Yachting Federation and all the rest of it. And they sailed by "Board of Trade" rules - what we now call Col regs. Rumour has it that life got very complicated on Sydney harbour... |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:26pm
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your undoubtedly right... but surely it's like racing a Super Bike on a race
track also used by F1 cars. Different rules same track. But in this case the only thing that is different in your rules is you refuse to call yourself a Super Bike when you have always been called an F1 car? I don't see why you can't sail at RYA clubs e.t.c It's sounds like political Bo**ocks to me. What are the ISAF going to do, sue the class and bankrupt it. I'm sure that would go down well. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 9:32pm
Nope, threaten the clubs, not the class... Withdrawn RYA affiliation would make life very difficult for a club in these days. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:00pm
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I think the National 12's should rename:
George Orwell 12's ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: foaminatthedeck
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:58pm
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lol It does have a certain ring to it. But its 2006 not 1984 ------------- Lark 2170 |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:59pm
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Excuse my ignorance, but what's the setup with ERS? Do all national and International classes have to have their class rules re-written to conform to the definitions in the ERS? Can the class exclude some areas of the ERS in its own rules, or do they have to conform? |
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 10:59pm
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Could someone summarise why ISAF rules would adversely affect the National classes? I'm a tad lost, but it sounds like something remarkably stupid is going on? ------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 11:07pm
it's a new water proof hard back edition, especially developed for the new millenium. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 26 Sep 06 at 11:10pm
I believe that all International classes are being required to rewrite according to ERS format, and I'm sure that ERS format is compulsory for new International Classes. Things I've heard make me thing that the RYA is requiring UK National classes to rewrite rules into ERS format. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 6:51am
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Why? ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 9:38am
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The idea of ERS, and its a pretty good one in theory, is that all class rules should be in a common format, using common definitions for everything etc. Thus rules sets get shorter, because there's less in them, simpler to understand because every class' rules work the same and so on. However when I looked at them they only really worked for mainstream one designs.
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 1:11pm
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ISAF has long had a problem in dealing with class rules that are somewhat out of the ordinary. I once met an otherwise charming Frenchman, who had had a long career in the administration of our sport at the highest level. He boasted that he was responsable for getting the IYRU to select the 470 instead of the Fireball as an Olympic class. He was somewhat put out when I told him that I believed that was probably the biggest mistake he ever made. He could not get his head round the idea of a boat that had tolerances wide enough to permit widespread home-building by amateurs. He did not believe that the Fireball was a one design. So instead of a boat that could have been built anywhere in the world, a boat that would have opened up sailing to the developing nations, we got a boat that few people have ever sailed. Gordon
------------- Gordon |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 2:30pm
I'd have thought as many 470's have been churned out world wide as Fireballs, if not more? Any country with the technology able to build a fibreglass bath would be able to turn them out. Doesn't mean I don't think the Fireball is nicer, mind... As for the National 12, ceasing to be a National class wouldn't have to change the name, would it? Instead of being a National "12", become a "National 12". The RYA cannot copyright the word National. And as most classes run perfectly well with RYA affiliation, rather than with RYA governance, life should go on pretty much as normal. I believe the Firefly is in the same situation. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 2:34pm
A man to whom the Fireball class should be forever grateful... |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 27 Sep 06 at 4:35pm
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so true, can you see the fireballs getting so good a social side to their racing if they were an olympic class? ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |