http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2006/09/02/newsstory8715044t0.asp - The Courier

And guess who was in the bright red boat who put his kite up and rode it! Where's "fotoboat" when you need them?

Calum, you appear as if you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about. The pink kite is '97 rules, that's the same as on Cheese. When we were flying the wind was still blowing its nuts off. We were sailing for ateast 3minutes before pitchpoling. We didn't need rescuing, we sailed back under our own sail. So I suggest you check your facts before flying off on one.

So for the record a cherub is slower than a laser standard up wind - and reaching aint too hot either, but wait till wind drops to a 3 and kites up, bob's your uncle the cherubs off !!! gr8, I witnessed the perfomance of the Cherubs and it was none too impressive , the rescue folk were none too impressed either and a drain on resources.

Sorry to chip this in , but when you get a class rammed down your throat as in this forum , bumm yerselfs up , you must expect to get shot down occaisonaly .

Personally I thought you guys would have kept quite about largs.

Just a thought is a boats popularity directly  portional to the inverse of the number of photographs posted in forums  ??

OOPs just seen the begining of the thread above looks like you gurlies have been taking a shot at home goal and shooting yurselfs keep it up !

For the record: thats bollocks.
Largs was not a weekend for cherubs... thats what you get for sailing a 12ft boat in chop.
Im sure youve seen the speed freaks table at the moment? Good luck to that laser on flatter water...

Where did you witness this performance? at largs?
Sweet dream's forestay snapped (the same wire fitted to most boats and nothing to do with it being a cherub).
Strawbery took their time going round admitedly, they started late and proceeded to fall in a lot, take in a lot of water and had to be towed the final few hundred meters as the wind died... this is hardly a drain on resources.

The 'far from impresive' primal scream won the event last year and as you skimmed over in my previous post: Atum was 3rd this year despite having to stop for on-the-water rudder repairs.

What were you sailing mr canal? or were you part of the rescue crew that was doing its best to write off chris's 300? The cherub folk were none too impressed with that.

Theres no 'ramming down your throat' at all. Theres a large number of cherubers on the forum so inevitably a lot of the comments relate to them but invariably we are not the ones to start it. The reason there is so much 'bigging up' of our class is that invariably we are forced to defend ourself against pathetic stabs against us like this.

A bit of banter/ribbing about classes is fine, no one is any doubt that Cherubs are challenging to sail, so are lots of other development classes.

But taking a shot at the rescue crews, who will have no doubt given up their time, so that YOU could go sailing does not show classes or indiviudals in a very positive light. The sport would not exist the extent it does without people being prepared to give up their time to help on and off the water.

If the rescue crews were 'bought in' for the event then that's another issue.

naw I wasn't in a rescue boat , was having a sabatical from usual sailing and was awarded a view of full proceedings .

Glad you guys can tell when your plonkers r being pulled !

its good  you take no offence when presented with a bit o banter  nor mean offence any to the poor souls in ribs at Largs , without them we would all be worse off , hear rescue at NB was kept busy , you get a nasty chop there .

How naive can you get? Of course the things you say and do affect the reputation of your class, employer and any other group you are associated with.

Good point. I do with that anyone that does any kind of safety would ask/learn about the issues relating to helping high performance dinghies.

I'd had to take over driving a rib that was trying to help out when my 14 had a gear failure since they seemed intent to trashing my main/mast while lecturing me. Between my crew on the boat and me in the rib we sorted out out in the end.

People that get on their high horse and think they are god on safety piss me off, especially when you have done nothing wrong (gear failure).

I would just like to point out something here.

What would happen if ALL safety boat cover was withdrawn?

Yes we all have times when you wonder how best to sort out a rescue, and at times we have had to ask the boats crew what they would like to happen, but if the safety cover was not there, then the race would not go ahead, insurance issues anyone.

If you have an issue with how a rescue was handled take it up on the day with the safety officer, Not post your pet hates here. Or more to the point, try having a go yourself. Lets see a nice multi class event, with classes you haven’t come across before, and see how well you do.

Yes I would rather be out there sailing my Osprey than suck on a rib, but we all take turns to help out, give our time freely. If your not careful you tar all safety boat crews with the same brush.  

Because if the insurance companies start taking note of you rants against safety boat crews, (and they do read this forum) how long will it be before they insist that only professionals crews, RNLI for example, man the safety boats before they will cover your club, boat or event?  

tgruitt and m liddell

Please remove far canal from your quote references above - YOU ARE NOT QUOTING ME !!!!!!!!!!!!

(If you are reading this mr Jardine or whoever runs this forum could you make sure this is done , I do not want to be associated with such thoughtless , illconsidered , stupid remarks.)

Tgruitt ,m lidell

YOU ARE QUOTING ISIS's INCREDIBLY STUPID REMARKS ABOUT RESCUE I don't think his accusations of some rescue personnel's ability are  doing  him or his class any favours !!!

Perhaps the Cherubs should issue a directive on how  to recover their fragile whacky craft

Folk should remember that a rescue crew s main priority is the rescue of personal , boats are a bonus !.

No (again ) i was not on rescue , no I'm not a member of Largs , yes I have a vested interest in rescue as alongside ALL dinghy sailors it is a service we rely on when things get tough, unforseen happens etc  and something most of us cary out for others at other times.

Only in a perfect world Tom, I don't think you will find there is any legal requirement

Cheers tgruitt

I appreciate it was a mistake , accept your apology and editing out the offending piece .

thanks

m liddelll ???????

This is a very valid point and one that is a hot topic of discussion between insurers and sailing clubs.  The vast majority of clubs, do ensure that all rescue boat crews are suitably trained, but not all!  Clubs who do not carry out strict, regular checks, may find that they become uninsurable.

Accidents have been caused in the past, involving well-meaning, but untrained crews and all clubs should ensure that appropriate steps are taken before a serious accident occurs.

I would also like to endorse earlier comments regarding the efforts of all rescue boat crews who volunteer their spare time, so that we can all go sailing.  When conditions become extreme, their priority should always be to ensure the safety of sailors and also themselves.  Possible damage to boats should always be their secondary concern.

Ive just been reading all of this - ohhhh dear. Come on lads - lets just settle this and stop all the banter.

Rescue: Driver MUST have at least saftey boat and a crew, whom is prefered PB2. Unfortunatly sometimes these meer crew wana "drive". Then get distracted or the club just put in someone who is "good in a power boat" and no qualifications - ive witnessed this 1st hand.

Isis's comments reflect him, not one of the 3 classes he sails - who ever it was, who said that is just generalising cherubs now!!! Why isnt he a 600 sailor slating bad rescue crews??? humm - a nice ole plastic fantastic smody boat will never fail................................HA

As for Mr (Strawberry) Tinners kite - im sorry mate, its a pre 97 rules. It certainly isnt 15m, but good effort for using it and not just simply giving up!

Mr I14 sailor - ive sailed 14's, used to own a 49er etc etc etc, they arent the boat for "us". We like to be on the edge, everything in a cherub is built to such a high tolerance to be as light as possible. Even an air bubble in a boom causing it to snap cost one cherub the title a few years back. But its a price we pay to have this level of sailing - in no other boat apart from a 12 can you feel this. & as for your comments - id truely like to see you keep up with a 12ft skiff  

All these views are expressed as my own, not reflecting on the cherub, 12ft skiff or my "scorpion X" class.

Might be worth reading the Club's 3rd party insurance policy on that one.

All rescure drivers at grafham have quals - and IMO they are the best club rescue in the country

You may not agree with them mr canal, but my comments are far from thoughtless or illconsidered. Whether or not they are stupid is a mater of opinion but I stand by them.

I think you need to calm down a little. Ive done rescue duty before. Im planning to spend all of next summer doing solid rescue, missing out on a lot of racing and leaving very little time for even casual sailing (and yes: cherub tinkering too). Ive not claimed at any point to have issues with rescue crews, I know exactly what they put up with and as ive had to repeat in most of my posts in this thread I have a lot of respect for the people who volenteer to sit on a little boat in all conditions watching everyone else sailing.
I dont even have issues with those who dont have the experiance but do their best to help... as someone else mentioned earlyier on, ive had to take over the rescue of my own boat before as the crew onboard just didnt know how to deal with it. Im not even talking about those situations.
Ive only ever been refering to the odd muppet who gets given the keys to a rib and goes on a powertrip, ripping around, gobbing off and generaly causes more harm than good if theyre ever involved in a genuine rescue situation. If youve never come across someone like this then perhaps you are more lucky than I, or perhaps I just sail in the wrong places, but dont tell me they dont exist just because you havnt yet come across them.

think you missed the point bud , i was credited in quotes above for your comments , you can say whatever you want and should

however

I stand by my right to make  stupid , thoughtless and illconsidered remarks.

and for all to do same .

didn't want to be associated with yours , thats all .

Don't get me wrong I think there's a place for all sorts of boats in sailing , and welcome the cherubs contribution to sailing .

There also is the option of refusing rescue cover if you think the rescue cover are "incompentant". Saying that, how would you get your broken boat home and what's worse, being home and safe or still out on the water shivering on the bottom of an upturned hull????

What you often find is that its sailors giving sailors rescue cover and therefore do have some sort of clue about how to rescue a boat and if not are often willing to listen to your instructions if you are polite about it. I'm not sure about this rule about having to have Safety Coxswain to be a rescue boat driver (at club level) and PB L2 to crew. Don't think that's been the case at some of the clubs we've sailed at, might be down to the fact that the clubs have a good record for safety compared to other places.

The only time we accept a tow is in the situation when we can't sail the boat through a breakage, all other times we'll refuse assistance. In the cases where the boat has needed a tow, we're glad of the help. I am a safety boat driver so know how my own boat should be rescued and if the rescue crew can manage it, can guide them, if not I understand that everyones' safety is their priority and not just the safety of my boat.

As  Andy says, calm down chaps.

As for a directive for rescuing Cherubs, that's not going to happen as they are all different shapes and sizes.  However that is largely irrelevant as a good rescue driver will assess each rescue individually, think on his/her feet and act accordingly.  I'm a PB2 and safety boat driver and I have never done 2 rescues the same.

But having the ticket counts for NOTHING without experience and regular practice...at my club all rescue staff attend an annual day to practice rescuing a variety of craft, and it's also perfectly OK to go and have a practice on an exceptionally windy day just holding station next to a buoy etc.

You must be a safety boat driver to rescue at my club, however getting experience as a PB2 driving the boat under supervision of a SB driver (in the boat) is also encouraged.  However, I have to say the prospect of getting rescued by someone at another club who was not SB qualified is a but scary...if they were not SB qualified I'd certainly like to know about it so I could direct the rescue myself.

SB crews at my club are actually paid for the priveledge.  Let's not disagree that handling a RIB (especially in heavy weather) is fun but you must have the right attitude and experience for this.

Here here mr ssailor, now that its all settled can we all move on

We can all just pick up our toys and put em all back in the pram. & yer, Mr Gruitt does have a habbit of huh hum, falling through Jib, deciding to jump overboard.......................

Yes some VERY funny pix indeed - as soon as I get my hands on them you all know where they are heading

Well I must have missed this thread!!!

I am a rescue boat driver for my club (see below)

I am trained to level 2  and we are also trained in basic first aid by the club and try to put in a duty at least once a month. I do this for two reasons

1) I actually enjoy helping out at the club and doing rescue is quite rewarding (most of the time!)

2) I sail high performance dinghies (49er & 5000's) so I realise if I have trouble and need a tow I need to be able to rely on our drivers and this way I know most of them and they know me (of course this gets me a lot of ribbing if it does go wrong but also helps with the recovery !)

I don't think giving them grief helps at all, you are all entitled to your opinions but it's comments like that which make them think twice about doing it. And then where would we be ?

Just for good measure the last two times I have been towed  in was last week with a broken mast  and 2 years ago with a wrecked knee!

I am always grateful to see them when I need them

(rant over!)

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 Now, breathe in, breathe out - sloooooooooowly

and get yourself a cup of coffee (nooooo! I said coffee, not another beer!! )

.... and what were you saying, precisely, about Tom and Andy??

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lol for all you who wernt there, picture this...

Dull rainy miserable scottish Sunday morning (same as any other really...) youve been up most of the night drinking the dodgy free wine and accepting all the free drinks guys keep buying you (this is from the girls point of view) now you walk over to the dinghy park past this big group of randomly unsorted guys not one the same and most of them sporting those queer southern accents, all standing next to their even stranger, non-smod, not what youre used to in the squad, brightly coloured 100% bodged boats and they all reak of last nights stale beer, pizza, epoxy and testosterone. It takes a few minutes but all of a sudden one of them standing next to a big red one with strawberries on it ses rather loudly, shes quite hot aint she (only after spending all frickin night making jokes about chris's sisters). then all of a sudden they come runnin over offerin to help put ur mast up straight and extend ur boat by a few feet or "do you wanna see my extra big imported kite"

No wonder they were first in the queue to get afloat...

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Now now lads - enough of the scotish hotties and get a GIRLFRIEND! hahahaha

Chris's sister......

NO! Bad Strawberry. You're going to prison for that!

I think I found what your looking for...

Finalists for Raymarine Young Sailor of the Year
Craig Paul, Sam Coombs, James Hopson: in an amazing act of bravery the three boys, from the West of Scotland, rescued Nell Hardie from certain death whilst out sailing their 29ers. Nell was sailing with Craig Paul when their boat capsized, trapping her underneath with the trapeze wire wrapped round her neck, and strangling her. The boys kept their heads, remained calm and handled the situation efficiently, managing to bring Nell safely back to shore and resuscitate her, before she was taken to hospital. If the boys had not acted so promptly Nell would have suffered severe trauma and probably would not have survived.

Guess these guys have a head start on youse boyo's dream on.

Just reading the first page and I have realised that stawberry needs to chill out.  You had a go and myself and someone else when we said something that you didnt like.

I think you have serious issues and need some help or maybe a girlfriend.

fight fight fight fight fight!!!!

Cheers Hobbo and on that very well laid note - here endith this banter!!

New topic now people please................

How about that 29er XX vs Cherub! HAHA - thatll gnarl up some people

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Sometimes keeping up with 14's? I want one  If it can do that I wonder how far off a 49er it will be when the breeze is on since the new 14's can (apparently) match the 49er downwind.

Seconded ...... although the Cherub PY is seeming a bit generous being rated at 975 and 980 at Largs for boats like Atum Bomb, Aqua and Primal etc especially if they are the quicker than 29er XX when the bog standard 29er is racing off 924..... Maybe the class could elect to differentiating between the newer faster boats and the slightly older ones, my guess being that the newer ones would be in mid to higher 800s at least. How did Atum and Primal seem to be fairing boat speed wise against the 5000 and older 14 racing at the Cumbrae weekend? Its not just Cherubs, reckon the newer 14s are much closer to the 49ers PY than what they actually are racing off ,but hey, that's one of the joys of owning a development class boat

Again the joys and pit falls of a development class PY - if its ideal conditions you will mince your PY and poeple complain saying its wrong, if its bad conditions people will say, haha your boats slow!!

So I rekon 980 is right even for the modern cherubs

But time will tell wether I will need a new PY for foiling Aqua........................

PS - foils are back on track, got the internal stiffing sorted and making the case today! WOOOO YER!

You boys will need to actually finish some races before any returns can be made ...

Wow having come into this Thread a little late I had to give up reaading it half way through (maybe a bit before that) as you guys were just being pig headed.

If as saftey crew has got something wrong you have everyright to say it. Just becuase they are out ina RIB (or waht ever other boat they got their hands on) doenst make them gods. Saftey crews that have little or no Idea are some of the most dangerous people in the world and should not be alowed near boats. Just reading your posts made me cross.

And before All of you sympathetic to Rescue crews start impailing my head on a stick ready to make an example to others. I am a qualified rescue crew who in the last year has had the Fortune of spending over 3 times the amount of time on the water doing rescue than actualy sailing. (at least) I even ended up on rescue when the other side of the world!

Thanks you very much Knightmare, unfortunatly ive had to remove my posts so i cannot agree nor disagre officially with you but beware you may have started this all over again