Hi. This post if probably going to p*** off some people, but hey, its a serious question:D. I am wondering what boat to buy next which i could club race quite well, and seeing as im only a wee laddy i can't afford anything expensive.

I will probably buy a cheap cherub juist for a laugh becuase they rock, but i also want a single hander definately. Thinking of a 600 but i want a kite ideally. Saw that laser vortex's are fairly cheap at the moment aswell and they have a kite if you wish...

So the question is, is the class for more 'mature' gentlemen?? Becuase im 15 and see them batting along quite happily, and i obviously don't want a boat which isn't a challenge but surely vortex's can't be that eaasy with a kite aswell??

Also why is the class not doing so well?? Will i find the class's average age a hell of a lot older than me? will i have fun with it? and why are they so cheap for a single handed spinni thing.

any answers to the questions GREATLY appreciated.

Hi Wave Rider,

I have not owned a Vortex, or sailed one, but I sail at a club which is the 'home' of the Vortex and all of the top sailors in the fleet are friends of mine and, normally, I sail against them on a weekly basis. I would normally leave it to one of my friends to respond to your queries but I just thought that I would let you know that the Vortex Nationals are being held, not too far from you at Lymington Town Y.C. on 12th/13th August 2006, and it would be an ideal opportunity if you could get there and talk to the sailors, I think that there is also training being organised there on the 11th.  You will find all of the sailors very approachable, very helpful and welcoming.  I am sure that you will also get a chance to sail in either a basic boat or one with a kite.

To briefly answer your other queries, the class is for anybody of any age, the oldest one I know is in his late fifties.  I must admit, I have not come across any 15 year olds.  The Vortex is as much a challenge as any other boat in order to sail it well.  I accept that with two hulls, it is a more stable platform, and therefore more forgiving, than say a 600, 700 or an MPS when the wind gets up.  When the boats were introduced in 2000 they were una rigged.  After a couple of years, some of our top sailors, who had also been very good in other classes,  thought that the boat's downwind performance would be greatly enhanced with a kite, also it would increase the skill factor and make for more exhilerating sailing. 

With this in mind, Keith Escritt spent about two years designing and experimenting with different kites and different systems until the present set up was perfected.  He went to the Class Association with a proposal and the assymetric option was adopted, the present PY's are 960 (una) and 930 (kite).

Considering that Laser are no longer having new boats built and that they are no longer marketing the class (like they have done with several other classes), the class is 'marking time' until a new builder/marketer is found.  I understand that this will be sorted out later this year.

With all due respect, as you are 15 years old, it is not surprising that the average age of the sailors is considerably more than 15 (probably 40'ish).  I am sure that anyone would have fun sailing the boat, with or without a kite, particularly when the wind gets up.

When the boats first came out it was possible to get a boat, combi and covers for around £4000, which was a very good price in terms of what you got for your money (goods, speed and excitement).  Some of these early boats are now being sold for around £1000 (again for boat, combi and covers) which is amazing considering what things cost these days.  I think that a new mast or a new sail is around £700.   The cost of the new kite kits (complete) were around £1000 depending on when and in what bulk the class association bought them.  The other week, there was a complete assymetric boat up for sale for around £1500 which must have been an absolute bargain. 

It is fair to say that alot of the boats have changed hands a few times but there always seems to be a demand for them.  I suspect that some people have bought them as a transition boat before moving on to a 700 or MPS.

Most of the good Vortex sailors at my club are between about 11 and 12.5 stones.  If you are wondering why I never bought one myself, the boat never appealled to me, there were a few early teething problems with the boats, the performance is very poor in very, very light conditions and I am far too heavy.  I still think that the boats are great fun and fantastic value for money.  Hopefully, a Vortex sailor will post and will be able to better answer your queries, albeit I know that some are away at the moment and Keith has been in Garda.  Why not post on the class website?  I hope that this helps - try to get to Lymington next week if you can make it.

Ian   (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)

There's better boats out there - in my experience the Vortex is a bit of a tub. Doesn't go well until the wind gets above a F3, difficult to keep the nose up and changes direction about as effectively as the Exxon Valdez.

Certainly goes quickly in a blow and has lots of boatspeed, but the RS600 is a much nicer machine. Plus at 15 you still have some growing to do and will gain weight, so a 600 is a better bet.

I also rather suspect that the Vortex is a boat for life if you get my meaning...

Seconded for the RS600 - as mentioned in a previous post, when I race my 600 against the Vortexes (Vortecies?) at my club, the results are very much weather dependant, with the Vortexes keeping up with me (or even ahead on the water), but back with the standard Lasers in no wind.

The 600 is definately a better all-rounder, rather than just having one gear, and second-hand values are strengthening now, similar to what happened to the RS300, thanks to a shortage of boats on the market.

If your eventual goal is a 700/MPS, then the step from the 600 upwards is more natural too.

Looking at the people sailing the MPS there are people who come from Vortex, 700 & 600.

Those coming from the 700 have no problems.

On the others I'd say the 600 sailors make the easiest transition ... the MPS is probably easier to sail than the 600 apart from the kite handling issues.

The ex-Vortex guys do pretty well but it seems they perhaps have lost some of their balancing skills from time spent in such a stable boat.

The 600 is the way to go if you view this purchase as a stepping stone.

Rick

what is your current obsession with the byte tack'ho?

WRT the Vortex it's horses for courses. It's never going to be a mass market boat but it will always have a niche. I bought one because I wanted a fast trapeze asymmetric single hander I could sail in a fast handicap fleet without the extreme gymnastics of a 700/MPS (I'm 46 and only about 70kg) and without the need to be AFRAID of going sailing in anything above the top of a three (ever noticed how many 700s/MPS stay in the dinghy park when it's windy).

I havn't regretted it at all and I've won a few club events and local opens. Its not the best boat in light winds but all classes have their weaker areas, and the vortex is so cheap at the moment you could always buy a second boat for those light days (I have a solo) and still have change from what it would cost you to buy a 700/MPS! 

People often comment that it's difficult to tack but I would say no more so than any other high performance single hander (see comments on the 600 site re "irons")

With regard to the comments about the class dieing I'm not in any position to comment officially but I gather negociations are in place at the moment to establish a new builder and second hand prices seem to have bottomed out, certainly with regard to assymetric fitted boats and may even be beginning to pick up.

Give it a try, it's a great boat!

Some owners of other performance singlehanders like to talk about the demise of the Vortex. Interestingly this includes some who have been 'tarred' with the same brush but have since made a partial recovery.Sorry to dissapoint you guys, but the Vortex is still going strong with good fleets and strong interest.For instance it had more boats at its Nationals last year than any of the others mentioned. Well known and reputable potential new builders are asking the class about building and marketing the boat - so if only Laser would 'let go', new Vortex would soon be available again.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't want to knock any of the opposition - I love the MPS - I like the 700, I quite like the 600.  So if any of them are what you want - go for it.

But if you're looking for a single handed trapeze boat with asymmetric for around £2500 - there is no real alternative.

Like the 600 and 300, second hand prices have dipped but are recovering - but remember this was a much cheaper boat to start with so the lower prices now simply reflect that. Another aspect to consider is cost of maintainance. They are very robust - very little maintainance and  parts are rarely needed and/or inexpensive ( for instance, I don't know of anyone ever needing to replace a foil, but if they did , they cost around £70 - I'd bet the others are over £200 (The MPS is over £400). Over 75 asymmetric kits have been fitted and of those, only one has a second kite - which he has never used.

Upwind performance has always been good, but the asymmetric has transformed the boat into a downwind Rocket. Yes, like most trapeze boats, its light wind performance isn't great, but it's not as bad as some like to claim - it just requires a bit of technique and of course the kite has helped enhance it's overall lightwind performance and downwind enjoyment 

The class has one of the most active associations around and has enjoyed great sponsorship from Gerber and now ASAP International. As a result, the class provides free training, free meals / drinks at events and cheap subs etc.

The Class is holding it's nationals at Lymington this weekend preceded by free training on the Friday- come along and try one - I doubt you'll be dissapointed.

I had a Vortex a few years ago and it was very much as others have said. Absolutely fantastic above BF4, good at BF3 and the same speed as a Topper in the light stuff. Middle age spread is now catching up with me but I was about 80kg at the time. I haven't sailed the Vortex with kite but I imagine that would have made a great difference - without spinnaker you cannot generate enough apparent wind to do any decent angles downwind.

Helming from the wire is fantastic though. I now sail a Hurricane 59 SX cat which brings me to my suggestion...

Have you considered a Dart/Sprint 15? There's lots about, they're cheap enough and they are quicker than the Vortex. They are also quicker to rig and there's enough room for a passenger if you want to impress your mates. Follow the link http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/boattests/sprint15.pdf - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/boattests/sprint15.pdf