Plastic Fantastics
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2013
Printed Date: 16 Aug 25 at 7:20am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Plastic Fantastics
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Subject: Plastic Fantastics
Date Posted: 16 Jul 06 at 9:07pm
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With all of this heat around, could it be bad for all these new fangled plastic boats i.e Vago, Omega, etc. Could the heat cause them to expand and deform? ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Replies:
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 16 Jul 06 at 10:24pm
Lets pray and hope 
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: CT249
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 1:01am
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Certainly polyethelene windsurfers can bend in the sun. We still have the original Windsurfer racing as a class down here in Oz, and we heat them in the sun with black plastic bags to adjust rocker according to the conditions. If some modern board had that ability, you can get they'd call it "Vari-rocker" or something, write pages about how it helped performance, and charge a premium! Do people adjust the shape of Toppers in the same way???? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 7:40am
| With Toppers (which are a different material to therotomoulds) its the cold they really can't stand. Soneone at our club was towing one home on a sub zero day, they clipped a gatepost or something and it shattered! |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 8:12am
We could always ask feva_kid to go on a mission and investigate at length the adverse effects of the 45ēC he's enduring on his favourite Feva. I'd be happy to donate water bottles and suncream, just for him to step outside and have a break from the forum.   ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 10:43am
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We have a few Topazs at Hunts and it was a pig to get the mast in one of them on Sunday (apparently it normally just drops in). But at least she got sailing I was too busy repairing the 'bed' :-S Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: wheresthewind
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 11:48am
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I have no idea why they have come up with this current craze for plastic boats they are awful. Find the pico, topper and other with a free standing mast are fine but who decided to put strouds on a plastic boat they are awful. Did anyone tell them plastic flexes!!!! For the last 2 years Ive worked abroard in two differnt centres in hot weather on both occasions we had fevas out of 20 in both centres over 10 split in the stern either below the bottom gudgen or where the stern is narrowest for the self draining cockpit. as well as this the masts filled up with mud (not cap on top of mast) so were inherently unstable (even when the hulls did not fill with water due to the splits in them) and the sailed lasted all of about 3 weeks before falling to bits |
. I spend ages fixing them wit lots of silcon sealant and stainless steel plates trying to stop the flexing. Fevas and other plastic boats are with shrouds are the worst idea in a long time. Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 12:41pm
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Look, we don't beat about the bush on this forum, just get to the point will you ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 12:50pm
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Pico's and Topaz's seem to survive OK at sailing centres in the med, it's the windsurfing sails that really get it. Sunsail's policy of not having covers for their high performance boats is questionable though! |
Posted By: Garf
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 1:48pm
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Only thing I remember about my Topper in the sun is the rush of hot air that comes out the boat at the end of the day when you open the bung. Its reassuring to know there are no air leaks !
------------- Looking for a 'Ball! |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 1:55pm
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I get that exact same thing with the Vareo! Over the winter, someone had left the bungs in a few of the club toppers, so one crisp windless day we noticed, and opened them ... It sounded like an airbed deflating, and you could hear the hull cracking back into shape. Its a good test of wether they are airtight though :P ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 2:00pm
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are the 'big 3' all doing plastic fantastics now? vago rotomoulded? having seen a topaz hit a drum raft with a wooden deck and gunwhale, the latter comning off worse, I reckon they are a good replacement to GRP things like the wayfarer and laser 2 at schools |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 3:52pm
i do have that break from the fourm.i go skiing!and my laser 2 has gone soft from the heat over the years. the toppers are starting too.but the fevas are onlky a year old so no.the vagos at the other club are going soft. ------------- |
Posted By: Sumo
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 5:43pm
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Here we go again, knock the plastic boats! The Feva has it's faults, but as a youth boat it has provided an asymetric option to hundreds of kids. If you have ever seen the abuse that kids will dish out, just being kids, you will be grateful that they aren't sailing a fragile GRP boat. The Vago has shrouds, as per the Feva, and both are designed with low tension rigs so they don't fold in the middle. Just to pour more fuel to the fire, in the latest copy of Y&Y they reported that Topper was to stop making GRP boats to concentrate on the plastic ones. That means an end to the Byte and Blaze unless some one else picks up the design, which is something worth posting about! Vago and proud. |
Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 6:07pm
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Sumo said ....."just to pour more fuel to the fire, in the latest copy of Y&Y
they reported that Topper was to stop making GRP boats to concentrate
on the plastic ones. That means an end to the Byte and Blaze unless
some one else picks up the design, which is something worth posting
about!" The 'press' could have checked things out a bit better - possibly by asking Topper, the 'design rights' owners (who are quite independent) or even the Blaze class association ..... (I thougth that's what journalism was about ..checking the facts etc etc). With regard to the Blaze at least some 'reports of its demise' have been greatly overdone etc even if by omission ! There are at least THREE different groups who want to build the boat, having formally registered interest and the class has a very rosy future in store with whichever one get it. This rather confirms the obvious fact that the class is growing rapidly and just beginning to realise its full potential. Topper have also made it clear that production has NOT stopped in any case and they will continue to build to order until the new builder takes over in the next couple of months. Their policy change was simply recognition that their future is in committing themselves to their rapidly expanding plastic range. The only difficulty for them was that the Blaze, amongst their GRP range, was still selling very well. However they decided that they would find it increasingly difficult to ride two very different types of horses well. Focus is the name of the game in the emerging dinghy market and it will be interesting to see how others fare with this issue in the future. For the Blaze at least it will be a new and very exciting beginning with a new (GRP only!) builder however the boat itself will be unchanged. Blaze Class Association |
Posted By: laser47
Date Posted: 17 Jul 06 at 8:29pm
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it may be worth mentioning it's white formula not topper that make the boats, topper just sell them ------------- |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 18 Jul 06 at 8:27am
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Topper don't even own the design, Isotek (John Caig) does. I'm not knocking the big manufacturer/maketing companies as I think on the whole they do a good job but in this case the class will be just fine and may even do better without Topper. They appear to have a choice of builders who are interested. This Topper thing isn't so bad. Let's face it, if a boat isn't good enough to survive without being underwritten by a large marketing company and there isn't enough people dedicated to it to start an independant class assoc shouldn't we just let it slope off quietly? ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: yellowhammer
Date Posted: 18 Jul 06 at 12:40pm
what, like the Vagueo you mean? sorry Sumo, too good a opportunity to miss ... will any owner ever step up to the CA mark ... is it a racing or fun class? at the end of the rotomould product lifecycle, could a smaller scale builder take a second generation mould and convert to GRP? e.g. add flanges would they want to? |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 18 Jul 06 at 12:52pm
This is exactly what Blaze720 is saying. Some of the affected classes built by Topper/White Formula have very active class associations. 2nd hand Blazes (especially the X models) don't hang around for long. While the boat does have a few shortcomings (in terms of build, show me a boat that doesn't) it is a very popular boat and has been transformed by the CA and once the transition period is done from Topper/White Formula to the new builder I think the boat has a very rosy future. From what I understand there is quite a waiting list for new Blaze's and Topper/White Formula are fulfilling these (and new) orders until the transition is complete. IMO Topper are handling this quite well but they should release a joint statement with each affected CA. Paul Blaze 655 ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Sumo
Date Posted: 18 Jul 06 at 1:35pm
That's alright Yellowhammer, you just can't help yourself, it is obviously some strange form of tourette's triggered by the word plastic. I don't care any more as I have a new toy, a 59er, much nicer than a 3000. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 18 Jul 06 at 1:47pm
Only time will tell if the Vago survives as anything more than a sailing school training boat or as a family fun cruising boat that people occasionally race. As for the class association that is down to the owners to set up. There was a post a while back wioth someone bemoaning the inaction of Performance Sailcraft (aka Laser in the UK) to set up the CA. It is not down to the manufacturer to set this up, they sell the boats.Undoubtedly an active CA will help sell new boats but this has to be driven by the owners, help from the manufacturer is nice but should not be expected. Please gentlemen can we not turn this thread in to a 'my boat is better than your boat' free for all or a trilam bashing section. There are those of us for and those of us against. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: yellowhammer
Date Posted: 20 Jul 06 at 12:09pm
but surely that's half the fun of it ... it's a major talking point in the bar after racing, why not on the forum? ... it's all done in the best possible taste |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 20 Jul 06 at 3:22pm
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I agree a friendly bit of banter is always good about boats (hey I sail bed remember). But on here it seems to degenrate into a much more personal attck more frequently than not. We are all enjoying the same sport aren't we so lets just chill.....and go sailing (hows that for an idea). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 20 Jul 06 at 3:51pm
Any boat can suffer from air expansion and contraction if its truly airtight. Moths and other lightweight boats are best built with a breather tube somewhere where water is unlikely to get through in order that the pressure can equalise. On my PlusPlus it exited part way up the front bulkhead and ran downwards to the mast step so it would never let water in. |
Posted By: tackhoonhol
Date Posted: 21 Jul 06 at 3:51pm
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Quite. The Byte now finds itself in a similar boat (get it?), only it is still produced in large numbers in the States in europe and the far east. The fact is having someone whose focus will be on the boat and will actually market it in this country may be the best thing that ever happens to the boat. We too have a number of interested parties and await with with baited breath the outcome of their negotiations with Ian Bruce ------------- To light for a laser, not gonna win the Olympics, sail a decent boat....Sail a Byte |