it's 7 foot 7 x 3ft 7 isn't it?

TOP TIP

if you fit wheels on both sides & handles then they make prefect wheelbarrows with the mast brace removed.

Originally posted by Xpletive God! I am sooo sick of hearing about Oppies at my club and how the precious little sods in them are doing! They may learn about sailing, but manners seem to pass them by.

So agree with you, our club newsletter is always fully of storys written by parents about how well their child is doing in the oppie squad. 

thats nothing, our latest idea for an oppie is to duct tape an office chair to the floor then find a way to tie a person to the chair so they can get out easily then five them a kitesurfers kite and see how fast it goes. there will be pictures sometime (when the science teacher/training person isnt around (god shes scary)).

and that is why i will not be mutilating a taz for this experiment

now lets see if you can work this one out for yourself...

sound out each word, i know they're long but you can do it.

read the thread feva kid.

CENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSORED

surly wouldnt it slip sidways if it had no dagger board? the taz and oppie are both boring boats but if i had a choice and i didnt know anything about boats i would have the taz every time cos it looks simple, low maintence etc and would probily be perfetc for a young person that didnt want to race just capsize with friends etc

Any boat where the manufacturer releases a weighted daggerboard must be pretty flawed in it's design. I have taught many courses with them and concluded that the taz is a truely horrible boat. How can you rip off a proven design and make it that much worse?

I think you're all missing the point. Nobody sails boats like Oppies because they're a joy to sail... they sail them because everybody else does. How else do you explain the Laser?

I too have decided not to get my lad an Oppy (just in case), he's gonna have to sail with me until he's big enough for a Tera!

yeah but......Most top sailors do seem to have come from the oppie fleet, though.

If you can make an oppie go, then presumably everything else is easy.

Personally I'd favour cadets (or mirrors), as they encourage working as part of a team.

Maybe it's just the "enthusiasm" (both kids and parents) surrounding these classes that hacks everyone off...!!

that sounds like a stupid race officer to me. would like to see some pics from that, maybe we can destroy any miths about quick oppies.

i have a soloution to sll oppie-related problems,

a very big drill (or Kita's ledgendary bolt cutters).

as for the parents, well we can tell them to sail their kids boats and see how long it takes before anyone on port tack has a hole in them.

If any boat has created more world and Olympic champs than the Oppi, it is the Cadet. You learn how to use 3 sails, it is possible to crew from very young, and then move to the back when you get bigger, and bring on another smaller kid as crew. While the boat may be slow, and competitive Cadet parents be almost in the Oppi league, it certainly teaches skills that are transferable to much bigger, faster boats, and has a very strong following round the world.

But, no bowsprit, so out of fashion...Imagine having to learn complicated skills like spinnaker handling, when you can just pull a piece of string and play a big jib...running, what's that?

Cue Cadet vs Mirror discussion:

They may have seemed very different in the 60's, but these days they are both small pram bowed conventionally spinnakered boats suitable for young people...

The discussion now is between slow old junior classes v's not quite so slow new junior classes. Personally, I like the Cadet, Mirror and Feva. The Feva has different things to offer, but by that reckoning the older boats have things the feva cannot give, the most obvious being a symmetric spinnaker, but also a different feel to it all.

feva all the way, I sailed one on sunday and was very impressed

wot were you sailing at the time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_declutch - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_declutch

Matt, I hope we're going to meet in an open somewhere. I'd love to share a bottle of Devil's Advocaat!  

You should join and change things then, I'm sure your input would be welcome... or at least understand why they're like that.  I expect the Racing conference will be late November / December and it gives plenty of opportunity to influence the policymakers.

On the Feva question what assymetric boat would the detractors propose that was cheap, reasonably OD, accessable by young people with a variety of ages and abilities, and robust.  We already have three good symetric junior classes, if I remember correctly so I can see the logic of introducing an assymetric class.

Yes. People coming into the sport these days might just get the impression that you HAVE to buy a rotomoulded boat with a bowsprit, brand new, costing thousands, simply because of the marketing budgets of huge (by sailing standards) companies. In reality, there are many ways into sailing, some of which cost very little (crewing/rebuild a wreck) and all of which offer something different to the SMOD route. If we want to keep people coming into sailing we need to keep all the alternatives, and support them by offering official RYA training and publicity.

As for double declutching, if the Focus and Astra still had it, it would be taught. The Fireball and GP14 are 2 of the biggest classes around, and have old fashioned spinnakers, so shouldn't it be taught?

Paul In Economics its called 'Free Riding', difficult to eradicate in something like sailing where you want to encourage wider participation.  the RYA could restrict access to some information and services but this would probably be self defeating.  The schemes haven't changed that much over the years and is more tweaking than anything else.  I last wholesale change happened because week long courses were considered too long for busy people and the format went to one that allows a bite-size chunk to be delivered in a weekend.  Pobably better (and you do argue for change!) and I don't think your L3 is devalued by it.  Not sure what you mean by syllabus changing in the last 3 years, the only thing I've noticed is the alignment of the Junior scheme more closely with the adult, personally I think it better as the jump from S2 to S3 was too large for many. 

Think how much more we could get out of the sport and how much cheaper membership would be if you could motivate all those non members to join both the RYA and CAs.  I do see a problem with Olympics in the UK as this will result in a lot of press coverage of the games at the expense of what the RYA is contributing at club level. 

I really would recommend attending the racing conference, or if your gripe is with the training scheme writing to Dave Ritchie, after all if no one tells them its broke they can't fix it.  Pete Vincent in that other publication is making a lot of good points around the issues you raise.  However, at the same time making wholesale changes may alienate your membership while having only a marginal impact on non-members signing up.  Pete identifies the problems (and some solutions) but not the path to join these up...

From first hand experience and knowledge the RYA are not sunsail biggest fan...

I looked for you at Filey but couldn't find you... had to drink it all myself

You need to read this thread again and perhaps be just a little less patronising.

On the whole there has been little 'slating off' (I'm assuming thats like sl*gging off) of the boat itself except for some playful ribbing which all classes get here. The major critisism has been for 'The Oppy parents' which is a stereotype (much like the pony club parent) which has come about out of a collective experience. I'm glad you're club isn't like that (my current one isn't either) but I'm 37, have a child about to start sailing and personally don't wish to become like some (but not all) the Oppy parents I've encountered in the last 30 odd years and certainly don't want my little monkey to become a little darling. Perhaps the truth hurts?

In short. Chill out

Did you actually choose your nickname, Mr-don't-touch-my-oppie, or was it a cruel joke your kids played on you?

Just take Matt's advice, chill out - we're only having a bit of a joke...

Maybe we should start yet another thread "slating off" the Lasers?? Yeeeeehaa!!

Originally posted by Isis Originally posted by Black no sugar Maybe we should start yet another thread "slating off" the Lasers?? Yeeeeehaa!!

Again

Cheeky,

I'm truly sorry this thread has offended you. I thought from your username you would be able to take things a little light-heartedly. Please accept my apologies for sounding like an immature verbal bully in need of a sanity check. At least, I've never insulted anyone. You are obviously on a higher moral ground than us cliquey regular posters and I agree it wasn't a tactful suggestion to advise you to chill out. You obviously don't need it.

I have read your post with all the maturity I can muster and I can't really fathom what has incensed you so much in the rest of the thread. Yes, some of the posts make fun of this wonderful floating device called an Optimist. But, since you've read all 8 pages with avid interest, you cannot have failed to notice that members acknowledge the invaluable role of the Oppie in learning to sail (Rupert, Garry). Then, they started mentioning assymetric spinnakers which isn't relevant for Oppies, I believe. Same as double-declutching... 
All this only to say sorry. We're definitely the lowest common denominator and, should you accept this thankless task, it could be up to you to show us the light! (it's a joke...)

All the best,

Isabelle   

Originally posted by les5269 Originally posted by Isis Originally posted by Black no sugar Maybe we should start yet another thread "slating off" the Lasers?? Yeeeeehaa!! Again

slating lasers... where to begin

Originally posted by mike ellis Originally posted by les5269 Originally posted by Isis Originally posted by Black no sugar Maybe we should start yet another thread "slating off" the Lasers?? Yeeeeehaa!! Again slating lasers... where to begin

Takes practice that does

Xpletive Deleted....................

Listen mate, I think I responded in a similar tone to your original post - if you think it was dispropotionate to your diatribe then click the report button and let someone else decide. IMO we were attacking a type of sailor (who are difficult for anyone to defend) but you attacked us personally. What did you think would happen? A calm, reasoned conversation?

You implied that we are all imature (which on the whole makes people defensive) and we can't see how great a boat it is because of all the people it gets sailing (which I don't think we really questioned). Like I said, you need to read the thread again objectively (as I did, before responding) and then read you post objectively (if possible) to see how you came across.

Don't bring Mark into this, he has much better things to do. If you have a problem report the post.

For informed, mature journalism, I'll buy the magazine. For opinionated, sometimes immature subjective views on subjects which range far and wide, I'll read the forum. I know which one amuses, annoys and occasionally p*ss*s me off more, but I just keep coming back, even when I swear I'll stop wasting time and get on with putting those gunwales on...

Strange, really, I'd not associated this thread with anything controversial.