That bit of string at the pointy end
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1843
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 5:23pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: That bit of string at the pointy end
Posted By: Philsy
Subject: That bit of string at the pointy end
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 12:39pm
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I was brought up to believe that the term 'painter' should only be used with
regard to rowing boats on inland lakes, and real sailors should call it a 'bow line' (to go with the stern line). In much the same way, the front of the boat is always a 'bow' never a 'prow' However, now my daughter is learning to sail and the word painter is being bandied about by her instructor and in books. So, is painter an acceptable term and have I been misled all these years? Cheers Phil |
Replies:
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 12:54pm
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does it matter? ------------- |
Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 1:12pm
Do most things matter in the great scheme of things? 
Maybe not, but I'm interested. ------------- |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 1:28pm
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It is always referred to as a painter and occasionally bow line at my club. I believe NOR for some classes state that a painter of at least 6m must be permanently attached to the boat. Other classes just state that you must have 6 or 8m of rope available for 'immediate use'. Bow line is probably nautically correct but painter is the common name... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Ellie
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 1:29pm
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i never did the RYA thing but when i was little the rope on our mirror was refered to as the painted then on the little yacht as the bow line etc...maybe its size related i havn't used a painter/bow line/ pointy end rope thingy ma bobs in years...those were the days u could just tie up ur boat and grab a cuppa between races, none of this rolling sails malarcy! a anyhoo feva kiddywink i know ur keen but alot of what u say is less intresting than this soooo.... sorry chuck. |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 1:32pm
Now, another less-than-interesting question: why is it called a "painter"? Is it because that's the only thing you can hang on to when repainting the hull on a big yacht? (Tarzan-like brushmarks  ) Does anyone nkow? ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 1:40pm
Ah, but on grown-up boats like that it's always called a bow line... ------------- |
Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 3:52pm
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Thanks James, that makes sense. I'd add that a painter is permanently
attached to the boat's bow, whereas a bow line is stored in a locker and only attached when required. Phil ------------- |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 4:13pm
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Really? It used to be common practice to stream warps astern of a yacht when running under bare poles in survival conditions (to keep the speed down). Mike |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 4:43pm
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Maybe they only became warps when used for that purpose. they might have been called something different till they hit the water... Is it any wonder that outsiders look into the world of sailing and see an elitist bunch with a stupid name for everything? Why is the sheet not the big flat white thing that goes on the mast? Why do you rarely hear the word "rope" used when the boat is covered in them?Why is Gunwale pronounced "gunnel" (not that it isn't spelt that way round here anyway!) and why is it called that anyway? I've been sailing for over 30 years and still get confused. As for painters and bow lines, why does the knot change its pronounciation? It will always be a painter to me, but then I'm not a big boat sailor. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 5:33pm
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Any time I'm operating a rescue boat, I always ask for the "tow-rope" to be passed for towing just in case some people do not know the "proper" terminology for it. Seems the easiest way and if you are picking up power boat users due to boat failure, I always assume the best thing is not to confuse matters at all. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 6:33pm
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Hmmmmmm Very interesting but i do think (scary thought i know) from my personal opinion that its mainly dinghys that have painters. But then when i race dinghys it is very rare that i will sail with a painter. I will not sail a 49er with 6m of rope permently attached near a spinnaker pole as thats just asking for trouble. I will carry a spare rope few shackles in the zip pocket in the sail. On larger boats yes a bow line is not permently attached so maybe thats the differnce that in oldern days od on dinghys that permit it a painter is permently attached.
------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 6:35pm
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Yes, I do that too - the bit of rope you pull on to make the big flappy thing attached to the metal bit that bangs your head go in and out often ends up playing at being a tow rope when I'm not looking. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 6:49pm
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Some interesting observations. Who was it who said it didn't matter?
Gonzo makes a good point in that you wouldn't have a painter on a racing boat, and if you did, it would sound silly if it was referred to as such. Maybe a painter is acceptable on my daughter's Optimist, then! Regarding confusing terminology, I don't think it is elitist, but rather a part of sailing's heritage and, therefore, something to be proud of. In fact, I'm thinking about endowing said Oppy with a poop deck  Most sports
are the same - look at (if you dare) horse riding. So, what about 'prow'? Phil ------------- |
Posted By: Bruce Starbuck
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 7:36pm
| Is a prow a scow's bow? |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 07 Jun 06 at 10:35pm
| What is a proa? What would you call the ropes that are tied to the pointy ends in this case? |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 7:01am
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omg does it matter.it dosnt need to be called anything it can just do its job ------------- |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 7:27am
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shut up if we want to discuss it we will you dont need to look ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 7:46am
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feva_sailor did come up with a good point though, when I teach people to sail, I general don't use sailing terms to begin with on the first initial stages of the course, will give the pupils a general introduction to the boat but will get pupils sailing well instead of getting caught up in "you must know your sailing terminology". I don't really care if they are saying pull in that rope etc and I will say that to them too. However I do tell them that it is good to know the lingo and by the end of the course they do know the terminology and haven't been put off by thinking that there is too much information they must know all at once. A good way is to mark on the boats with white tape and permanent marker the names of things, like at the jib cleats, have the markings jib sheets and its easier to pick up. When you take off the tape on the second day, they basically know all the parts of the boat and say them without promting. On the old tape thing, we put "V"s at the front of toppers for the kids and say that if the wind is pointing inside the "V", they are too close to the wind to sail.......very good for teaching kids to sail upwind and when the tape is taken off, they are thinking about the angle of the wind naturally. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Skiffe
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 8:17am
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I'm sure that a painter is a bowline that is permanently attached (spliced) to the bow of a boat, and a bowline is a line that is knotted. Why is it a painter, well most ships painters of were skilled in painting not tying knots. So the line was spliced to the boat and tied to the ship by the crew or the wharf by dock workers ------------- 12footers. The Only Way to FLY Remember Professionals built the titanic, Amateurs built the ark. |
Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 8:36am
Life would be very confusing if we adopted that attitude to everything!  ------------- |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 8:44am
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Very good dennis i do like that idea of the tape on the front of the boat with "v" inside it. As i am off to teach a level one course in 2 hours i think i may just implemnt that. Thanks for the idea will add it to my list of tricks to teach people to sail. ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: Offshoretiger
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 8:59am
Yup, Im stealing that for our club juniors as well. Thanks Dennis ------------- ...yesterday I couldnt spell enginner...now I are one!...... |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 9:08am
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Doh!........knew copyright may have came in useful at some point in my life ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Philsy
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 9:37am
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There you go, what some claimed was a pointless thread will now help to
make the lives of hundreds - nay, thousands - of children just that little bit easier. ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 10:41am
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hehe, watch this, before we know it topper, RS, Laser, will be printing "V"s in front of their boat. You heard it here first, the next generation of "V" boats and when that day comes, I'll be wanting my commission and you guys are witnesses to my claim!!!!!!!! ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 11:06am
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yey im famous as the guy that went against it and said"does it matter" ------------- |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 11:17am
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Cunny Funt! ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 1:16pm
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When I was growing up (and probably to this day if truth be known) me and my mates NEVER used the correct terms, in fact we tried everything to avoid it in a sailing context. Blunt ends, strings, and sticky-up-things (masts) abounded. The only time we used proper nautical terms was whilst driving: 'Water' (at roundabouts), 'Mast abeam' (whilst overtaking) and in the pub: 'No barging' (at the bar). I've always been uncomfortable with the elitest tag and kicked out against. We considered 'Big boat sailing' (any boat with more than 2 in it) a different sport taken part in by old blokes in daft hats drinking stewed tea out of plastic mugs.... shudder. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 1:22pm
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I've seen it spelled as "Peinter" as in "pein" of a Hammer (the wedge shaped bit of a pin Hammer) this comes from the Latin "Pinna" meaning point. Thus the Pein of a boat is the pointy bit, Peinter being the thingy attached to it..............Pinna is where the word Pin comes from as well ...thinking about it. |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 4:57pm
all i saw u doin james was 360s in the orange plastic rib thing while an oppie u were teaching decided to sail onto the beach with everything down(rudder,daggerboard) ------------- |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 5:03pm
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------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk"> BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 5:33pm
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Yeah but the kid must have been still looking at the "V"!!!!!!!! ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 08 Jun 06 at 5:36pm
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ye and james was just confused by it all so he did the 360s in the orange plastic rib thingy ------------- |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 7:17am
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Keep chatting what you like until you hold a dinghy instructor certificate then you can tell me how to teach until then keep trying to sail or maybe take some lessons. P.S. - A RIB is a Rigid Inflatable Boat mine was far from inflatable ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 4:17pm
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im not telling u how to teach mate sorry but is was quite funny ------------- |
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 4:54pm
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Calm down... There's no need for that Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 4:55pm
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ok ive had all my lessons ------------- |
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 4:59pm
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mayb u need sum more ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 5:02pm
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no ------------- |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 5:11pm
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Are you sure? Where did you come today? ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 5:14pm
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..........."and this is how we tie a bowline.............." ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 5:21pm
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"Down the hole round the tree and back up" Oh well done Its only the 32nd time ive shown and told you over the past 4 weeks ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 5:22pm
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.........."next we're going to move to the tacking demonstrator, watch your head when you get into the...............oops to late, (doesn't seem to matter anyway)" ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 5:51pm
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"ok well done now push the tiller away from you turn the boat round a point back to me just like in the drill" "no no the other push" BANG capsize STUDENT "what did i do wrong" ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 6:02pm
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"yes" "oh ok"............."why has the halyard dissappeared" DoH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 6:06pm
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"Im not moving whats happened" "pull your dagger board up" "which ones that" "The one in the middle" "Preferably leave it on the boat" "oh sorry didnt know " ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 09 Jun 06 at 6:17pm
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"You have to swim and get it...........NO DON'T, I WAS ONLY JOKING! Please get back into the boat" ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 10 Jun 06 at 12:38pm
we turtled when tom cunich was crewing(not his fault we were overpored in a 20knot gust) and he got a bang to the head and got all freaked out so i go back in and race with jamie him helming me crewing.only got in one race  ------------- |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 10 Jun 06 at 5:34pm
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AWWWWW no sympathy as the wind was light and i had my gf who has sailed once and we beat the a class and fx1 on a topcat. Not the easiest job in the world ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: feva_sailor
Date Posted: 11 Jun 06 at 12:52pm
hmmm and 18kts is light? ------------- |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 11 Jun 06 at 2:13pm
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where the air is hot and less dense it only has the power of about 15 16 knots you would get in the uk. ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |