What's the right boat for me?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1830
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 4:25pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: What's the right boat for me?
Posted By: Sorce
Subject: What's the right boat for me?
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 8:13pm
|
Ok, I am selling my Wayfarer and with that money (Hopefully around £3000, plus maybe up to £1000 on top of that, so consider a budget for a second hand boat of max. £4000) I hope to buy a new boat. A bit about me: I'm 17 years old, quite an experienced sailor; I (try to) race Lasers every Sunday at a competitive lake near me and I currently hold and practice a Dinghy Instructor qualification. Now about the boat I'd like: Well I'm looking for a double-hander since I have a few friends who would be eager to join me, and I'm also looking for quite an exciting boat to sail, so definitely spinnaker + at least 1 trapeze (I would prefer only 1, actually). I would really like it if it had an active racing scene, especially one which is quite youth-orientated. Now, I've been looking around and it occurs to me that the obvious choice is a 29er, but I'm not sure whether this is the best boat to start with now at 17 since I know that many people start on this boat much younger. I've also looked at the Laser 4000 but I've heard that they've gone out of production and so I have my doubts about the activity of the racing there. So, what boat should I go for which would meet the requirements? Many thanks, Peter. |
Replies:
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 8:49pm
|
29er is a good bet, but they have been hijacked by the youth scene a bit. Can still be sailed when older and you don't need to be young to start on one, but the crew weight is lowish so if you're getting bigger then it may not be for you. Your best bet is an 800, they can be sailed single trapeze (ala some of Minorca Sailing's 800's) and twin wire when you want. Devastatingly fast and quite easy to learn skiffy ways in, when the breeze isn't up. Big fleets and good close racing. Single line kite hoist/drop and self tacking jib make an inexperienced crews job a bit easier. I'd recommend the B14 as well, but no trapeze and the kite has to be bagged (so requires an experienced crew). Can be difficult to sail as the kite is ridiculously unruly in a breeze, but very quick and cheap. 4000, good boat, very strong, but getting a bit slow by today's standards (due to the weight, 103kg's unfitted!). Good racing scene but I think it is diminishing. Others to look at include the Laser 3000 and the new RS500, both not as fast as the above but single trapeze with assy kite. ------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 8:50pm
|
there is lots of racing for the 4000 50boats at the nats and 60 at the inlands. it sounds like the 4000 would be a better choice. it is alot more fagiving than the 9er. seems to meet ur requirments. if u wanted to chat about a 4k u could private message me! luke ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 8:59pm
|
Thanks for the quick replies! combat wombat, I've had a quick look at the RS 800s and while they look fantastic, you you think that it would be a good starting boat for youth-adult racing? I mean they're right up there with the 49er and Laser 5000 which I was going to hold off on until I had some more experience in a spinnaker boat. Also, is the 4000 really quite slow?? With a PN of 908 I find that quite hard to believe. Honestly I am looking for something faster than the Laser Vago; RS 500 or Laser 3000 so they're not quite right. And thanks for the insight into the racing carshalton, but can you tell me how many younger members there are in that racing circuit? I'm looking for people under 20... Thanks, Peter. |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:03pm
|
no they are not slow at all. u get a nice f5-6 and u dont have to be a supper sailor to keep the boat upright. i am 16 am so is my helm, there are a few others in the class that are young mainly father and son teams not many all youth boats. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:07pm
|
Another thing with the RS 800 is that as beautiful as it looks, its also got a price to match which is quite far outside of my range unfortunately :( So that rules that out, at least for now. It looks to me as if a Laser 4000 is still my best bet, has anyone got any other suggestions? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:09pm
| 29er's a far nicer boat than the 4 tonner if you're light enough. |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:11pm
|
JimC, ok, maybe I should give you an idea of our weight as well. Combined, my crew and I would be somewhere between 150 and 160kg. This seems a bit too heavy for the 29er, but perhaps about right for the 4k? Thanks, Peter. |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:14pm
|
the 4000 is a good boat. Where are you thinking of sailing ? you may find that a certain boat is more popular than others I can't comment on the 29er I've never sailed one ,tho they do go fast ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:17pm
I sail the 9er with my bro, we weigh 130kg combined and we are about right, I think you may be a little bit heavy for the 9er.You should get a go in both the 4k and the 9er and see which one you like best. (i am selling mine after the worlds in july so... ) ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:17pm
|
have you had a look at the new V3000, faster than the old 3000 by quite a bit i hear, otherwise would recommend the 4k. ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:20pm
|
No, I haven't had a look at the V3000. I shall have to do that, although I know that its a new boat and so the racing scene won't be very established which isn't so great for me. I would keep it at either Datchet or Queen Mary reservoir. I have seen a Laser 4000 or two there so... Is there any great class at those waters? Thanks, Peter. |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:37pm
|
cherub?!
------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:43pm
|
Haha no, thanks, although watching the Moth + Cherub open meet was entertaining, I was very surprised by the moths flying ability! I am looking for a modern planing boat. |
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:56pm
|
Rather than looking at just plastic fantastic assymetric classes, for the money you have at your disposal, why not look at a Javelin? Beautiful boat, absolutely mega upwind and can be sailed competitively on a much smaller pond than the 4000/800 etc as it is quick on all points of sail. Fireball may also be worth a look if you're skinny ;) ------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 10:09pm
|
The 800 is a cracking boat, seen a few coming up for £4k recently, older boats but they seem to age well like the 4000s and 5000s. Excellent performance but really well designed. Helming from the wire isn't too difficult and reckon you'll prefer it to hiking when you get used to it and the difficulty level of the 800 is on about a par with the 4000. The 4000 has a cracking class though and it may also be worth considering the 29er XX if you are slightly heavy for the 29er. Doubt you'd regret buying any of the boats to be honest. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 10:17pm
|
I sail a 4000 and love every minute of it!! Although its a bit heavy etc is sailed by cery cool and friendly peeps who like to give advice!
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 10:40pm
|
Sorce the 800 really isn't that difficult to sail, it isn't difficult to learn helming from the wire on one, as as I said they are devastatingly fast, in fact so quick theres only 2 boats that you can go to after it, 49er or 18ft Skiff... or Cat if you're that way inclined.
------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: simsy
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 10:53pm
|
I think it has gotta be either the 4000 or the 800, both seem ideal, both have great racing circuits and turnouts. I think your weight may be a tad more suited to the 4000, but I personally think weight is thought about too much when it comes to choosing a boat. Fair few cheap 4000's about at the moment, but also a few 800's for just over £4000. Im not sure on this talk about the 4k being the same difficulty rating as the 8 though. Helming from the wire doesnt come to you over night, but is still fairly easy to the grip of. |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 10:59pm
|
If I'm not very wrong then the RS800 has a similar weight-balancing system to the 4000 so as long as you're not TOO light you'll be fine whatever? Also, you can sail the RS800 not on the wire, can't you? That way I could get used to the boat before learning this new skill. Hm, well I'll see whether my father would be willing to 'help me out' a little, and I've got to get this wayfarer sold first! Thanks for all your help guys, looks like its the 4000 or 800. |
Posted By: simsy
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 11:03pm
| Umm, about the single-wire 800, its a crap. No point in wasting time single wiring it, may as well just go straight to twining it. The rig provides too much power for just one person to trapeze, and for it to work the racks need to be ridiculously far out. |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 11:05pm
| Well I guess I'll stick to a F3 to begin with then ;) |
Posted By: combat wombat
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 11:08pm
|
True, but it is still possible and thats the main thing. True also that helming from the wire isn't easy (I'm not really qualified to say as I sail a 2 man hiking boat) but it isn't the end of the world - learnt to helm from the wire by single handing a Laser II, wasn't too difficult.
------------- B14 GBR 772 |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 12:17am
|
Don't single-string a 800, the rest of the fleet are twinning. If you are unsure about trapezing, the best way to get up to speed is to crew some single-wire boats and get used to "wire to wire" tacking and gybing. Try and get some high performance sailing DVDs like the original "Higher and Faster", its amazing how much you can pick up from watching sailing on TV. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 9:32am
|
I'd defs agree there. Higher and Faster is a must. My mate watched it daily between times sailing for a week and the difference in his sailing was ridiculous even though he'd been nowhere near a boat!
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 9:37am
|
Ok then, thanks. *Orders from LDC Sailing* Luckily my pay cheque had just cleared :-) |
Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 9:40am
|
You won't be disappointed. It is a really well produced DVD as well so the footage is great.
------------- http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 12:19pm
|
The RS800 is a great boat. I've sailed it as both twin wire and single wire (sunsail didn't let staff twin wire it) and we got overpowered upwind at the top of of a F3 @ 22stone all up. It is no fun at all upwind single wire in F4-5. If you are taking it easy at the start (< F3) this will be no problem and you can progress into twin wiring without changing your boat as you improve. The 800 is very forgiving despite being so quick, so you can take friends with some experience out with no dramas. Helming off the wire isn't too hard if you have trapeze experience - I went right into helming a 14 and had no problems. High and faster dvd is a must have! |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 5:49pm
|
I'd take a look at the fastsail website and see what the conventionally spinnakered boats are up to before deciding to go with a bowsprit. The sail may take longer to get used to, but on a lake it is far more versatile, especially if you will be handicap racing against other conventional boats. Having said that, I love crewing asymmetric boats, so try before you buy! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 6:08pm
|
------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 6:12pm
|
modern......planing......... cherubs will always stay ahead in those stakes, they're a development class so they'll always be up to date, and as for planing,  i think he said it!------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 6:53pm
|
Sorry for confusion, I guess the Cherub I saw must have been really old or I got it wrong altogether. Either way, they're apparently not the easiest boat in the world to sail, especially for an inexperienced crew (bagging spin. etc) so.. yeah. Probably going to stick with the 4000 or 800 depending on funds.. |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 6:59pm
|
While we're on the subject of clearing confusions, this is what a modern Cherub looks like:
Note the planing hull, and spinnaker chute. But your right, they're fairly tough boats to sail and probably not great for begginers. ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: simsy
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 7:08pm
So modest.
|
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 7:52pm
|
Is that a National 12, Stu........... (sorry) ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 8:08pm
|
Yer, the new twin wire version... ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 8:17pm
.......... better watch out, some people will start thinking that ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 8:30pm
Well they were considering loosening up their ruleset... ------------- |
Posted By: sailorguy
Date Posted: 06 Jun 06 at 12:50pm
|
I wonder if you have considered a Laser 2. as someone has said, they are good on small areas of water and the 2 is still very much a planning boat once you have worked out how to work the kite. There is also a good fleet at Dachet.
------------- RS 500 (twin wire) Laser 157607 Laser 85446 Pico 2136 |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 06 Jun 06 at 7:29pm
|
Hey, just out of interest: Is there a review for the RS800 anywhere on the web? I've looked extensively but can find nothing. A few for the 4000, but nothing for the 800? Also, is there an RS association/RS800 forum? I can't find any forum links from rs-association.com |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 06 Jun 06 at 7:33pm
|
Contact the back issues of y&y, think an extensive review and develope of the RS800 in the prototype stages was included in a few issues a few years back.
------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 06 Jun 06 at 9:58pm
|
To use the RS forum's you have to be a member of the association i think. I am sure that they will let you join the yahoo group which is what i have done for the 600, you can email any queries and i am sure you will get a flood of responses. If you go to the RS800 class page i think there will be a link to join the group somwhere.
------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: Sorce
Date Posted: 06 Jun 06 at 10:43pm
Ah thanks for that 29er397, have applied to join the group now 
|