Kill cords
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1805
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 7:00pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Kill cords
Posted By: Guest
Subject: Kill cords
Date Posted: 26 May 06 at 6:19pm
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Another bad news storey http://hollandregatta.org/2006/news/article.asp?Id=E733518B-D5E7-4EF4-8894-777F4834BA49 - http://hollandregatta.org/2006/news/article.asp?Id={E733518B -D5E7-4EF4-8894-777F4834BA49 } I hope this guy turns up ... |
Replies:
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 12:25am
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Not sure what killcords have got to do with this? a) If he/she had been wearing a killcord then he/she would have survived (climbed back in? Not easy on your own unless you're pretty fit). b) If he/she had been wearing a killcord then the boat wouldn't have been spotted "taking an unusual course" so soon and hence the alarm would not have been raised so quickly (I'm not suggesting this is a valid argument for not wearing a killcord!).
Mike |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 6:52am
Mike, Lets assume this guy has fallen overboard ... if he had been wearing a kill cord then the RIB stops and he get back in ... which is easy to do if you step up on the ventilation plates. With no kill cord either the boat circles and runs you down or just motors of without you. Despite what you say it does look like you are presenting and argument against kill cords ... rick ------------- |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 8:53am
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Hmm personallay i usually where on but not always. I am a competent enough driver to not most of the time except on the sea when i never move the boat without one on. But condonences to the lost man and family ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: Contender 541
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 8:59am
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Kill cords are like boyancy aids.
Never set foot on a (power)boat without one, and it just feels wrong not to wear them ------------- When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss Crew on 505 8780 |
Posted By: scottish_tornad
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 12:11pm
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Having been in the situation of having to rescue a rib driver from the water while the runaway rib was trying its best to run us down I would always wear a kill cord even on a flat pond. its always the unexpected event that causes an accident in my opinion there is no excuse for not wearing one if it is fitted. ------------- tornado GBR389 www.dalgetybaysc.org/home.htm |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 12:15pm
i personally don't think wearing a kill cord is to do with competence in driving the boat. I am a competant sailor (i hope  ) but that doesn't stop me capsizing on the odd occasion. A guy at my club had to do an emergancy stop and he wasn't on the throttle quick enough, he was straight out the side of the boat with it going in full throttle and right lock right beside him! at one point he was only a couple of feet from the prop! This guy was quite an experianced driver, but everyone makes mistakes. lucky a towing line fowled the prop before the boat was on the rocks! (the kill cord fell off his leg - his own fault for not securing it properly  )------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: laser47
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 1:21pm
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we have floats fitted to them all at hawley now in case they get dropped so there's always enough for all the boats - no excuse to go out without one ------------- |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 2:19pm
ours stay on the boats permanantly, unless something goes wrong they should never come out the keys, and if they do they go str8 back in! ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 4:21pm
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No excuse what so ever for not wearing one. ------------- 
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Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 27 May 06 at 8:33pm
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ours are attached to the RIB keys to stop folk forgetting to take one and there is a policy that on almost all occasions there should be 2 people in a power boat at all times ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: Phat Bouy
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 9:28am
What on earth should put him in a situation where an emergency stop is required? Surely he was only travelling at an appropriate speed for the situation whilst maintaining a proper lookout and wearing a kill cord? Where ever you go you often see the safety boats roaring around with only two apparent speeds - flat out or tied-up. It's only a matter of time.............. ps rant over.................................... ------------- Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho |
Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 2:57pm
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There is absolulutly no need to not wear a killcord there fitted there for a purpose and were fitted to save lives. If people are stupid enough not to wear them how about they think about the people they could injure as they are obviously not caring about them selves. Its just common sense. ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 5:58pm
hmmmmm, interesting point, but, whatever the situation is, an emargancy stop may be neccesarry for unforseen circumstances. Can you honestly say you have never had to stop suddenly in a car? and that you never speed? i think not. Anyway, the point is, its is just iressponsable not to where a killcord no matter what the conditions ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 7:41pm
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Summary ..............Kill cords good.. We all agree. New topic please.
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Posted By: Phat Bouy
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 9:41pm
Emergency stops are no longer taught on Level 2 courses, certainly not in the last 3 years. I do not know of any RYA course where they are taught though you might (not reccomended) see one demonstrated. Any sudden change in speed or direction can cause a person to be thrown out of the boat. Cars can not be compared to boats - chalk and cheese. Yes I have had to resort to the odd emergency stop and yes I do speed (talking cars here )------------- Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 10:41pm
agreed ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: Ian99
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 10:54pm
To be honest, with most club safety boats, there isn't much else you can do, and in any case whether you're planing and doing 20 knots or 35 knots (not many clubs have boats this fast!) it doesn't make much difference to safety of the thing. Also, if the boat is going to rescue someone, who could potentially be drowning, there is only one speed which it should be operated .... flat out! (unless the sea is so rough this would result in you tipping the safety boat in) And no, I don't find blasting around in RIBs exciting, it's just noisy and uncomfortable, particularly when there's a 4 foot short chop, force 5 headwind and hail..... As for kill cords, essential in any boat which planes - and also make sure the cord is short enough ... it should trip the engine when you fall away from the driving position, not just when you fall out of the boat! |
Posted By: Villan
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 11:33pm
And it should be attached securley to something on the person (clipped to a belt loop or around a boyancy aids straps, and not just wrapped around the leg, as it can slip if you fall out ... and then wont have the wanted effect. ------------- Vareo - 149 "Secrets" http://www.TandyUKServers.co.uk" rel="nofollow - TandyUK Servers |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 28 May 06 at 11:50pm
I have painfil memories of a club rescue boat going across the bows of my Cherub at max displacement speed when we were *very* well places in the first race of a major winter open event. The resulting pitchpole as we plumbed the depths of the hole in the water it left cost us not only an excellent result in that race, but also the whole of the rest of the event as my drysuit found sopmething to rip open on. Safety boats should travel at sppeds calculated to minimise wash, and if that's full on planing then its fine by me. That's vcertainly the case with my clubs boat, the lowest wash speeds are flat out and walking pace. |
Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 29 May 06 at 7:28pm
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I have always felt that you need a spare kill cord in the boat, so that if the driver goes over the side taking the kill cord with them you have the option to start up again so you can manuver back to them. I agree on the speed thing it should either be min throttle or get it planing and ease the throttle back to just keep it on the plane. ------------- If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 29 May 06 at 7:57pm
you are definately right with the speed thing, not only does mid speed cause massive wake, but its also very un-economic on the fuel front!
------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 30 May 06 at 8:51am
Sorry Rick, never a good idea to post when you've just got back from the pub I agree that you should always wear the killcord, though it can be a right pain at times e.g. if you're laying/moving marks singlehanded (OK, OK - 'stop the engine' etc.). I nearly got into trouble at a recent open by turning around and pulling out the killcord at an inopportune moment - strong tide running, holding the rescue boat into the tide on the motor nice and close to the leeward mark so my onboard photographer could get some nice pics of the melee, accidentally pulled out the killcord and now the tide is sweeping us into the melee too. Cue some frantic fumbling to get the thing going again. Don't think we would have been too popular if we hadn't got it going again within few seconds. Nothing to do with sad case in Holland though. Mike |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 May 06 at 10:07am
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I don't know what you are on about - post make perfect sense ...
That just looks like another argument against kill cords ... Yes ... they can be a pain at times but not as much as a pain as they can be if you don't use one. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 30 May 06 at 4:15pm
But not that well considered perhaps...
It wasn't meant as that, but whatever. Mike |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 May 06 at 4:32pm
Completely considered ... I guess we disagree. I think kill cords are a "must use" in all situations regardless of any other issues ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 30 May 06 at 5:50pm
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I've only come close to full-on panic once (on the water) and that was whilst watching the safety boat driver bobbing about (thoughtfully waving the kill cord at me) whilst I, in the RIB was blown downwind at several knots powerless to start the engine and get him. There should ALWAYS be a spare kill cord somewhere in the boat. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 30 May 06 at 5:57pm
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Our clubs RIB has a switch style killcord, so that if the driver does fall out, then the switch can be pushed back in and the engine be started, obviously now it has no killcord but the engine can still run. A second killcord is always a good idea
------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 31 May 06 at 4:50pm
I meant that what I wrote wasn't very well considered by me... I'll shut up now. Mike |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 31 May 06 at 6:50pm
Ahhh .. OK. Killcords on ... lifejackets on ... everyones OK. ------------- |
Posted By: MikeBz
Date Posted: 01 Jun 06 at 3:23pm
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Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 10:48am
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I agree that killcords are sometimes a pain but an absolutle must whenener moving the boat under power. I'd quite like to see someone develop a variable length cord. This could take one of two forms... 1. A cord with an additional attachment point halfway along it's length. Normally, for driving, you have both points attached to you, but if you need to move forward and move a mark or similar you undo one giving you double the length. 2. Or an arrangement similar to an extendable dog lead, so if you need to move you can extend the cord, and it will automatically take the slack back up to the original length as you return to the console. Anyone who has done a lee-shore rescue will know well that if single-working it is almost impossible to be able to move around the RIB, especially if it's a bigger one, and prepare towlines etc without inadvertantly cutting the engine. ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: laser4000
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 11:18am
I understand where Ian's coming from but as someone who's done a bit of team race coaching which invariably involves 'single-handed ribbing', and moving mark's, whisltes etc, my kill cord solution is to put it round my leg, which means that my arms and upper body can move around, wave flags, whistles, lay marks etc. This really works for me as I don't have to worry about the kill cord too much. Agreed not much use if you've got to go to the front/back of the boat!! |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 12:34pm
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you could have a seat belt kind of thing where it will extend until it is pulled sharply and will stop extending
------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk"> BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: Garry
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 6:38pm
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Kill cords should always be worn around the leg and not wrist (this has been RYA wisdom for some time now).
If doing a lee shore rescue you should prepare everything well away from the shore and so can stop the engine anyway! safetyboats should have a minimum of two crew anyway... Its only training and coaching where single-handed is acceptable (and two is better). Sure I'll get lots of comment on that! ------------- Garry Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 8:30pm
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hmmmmmm....i would have thought wearing one round the leg is risky never mind the wrist! if the kill cord is slack in any way it can quite easily fall off the leg, i would say attatch it to a bouyuncy aid or something. ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 8:45pm
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i know the rya say that putting the kill cord on the leg is best and it probily is for ribs but at aquasports we have little comando's with tiller stering and as u are quite close the the engine i think it is best to put the kill cord round the shoulder strap of your bouancy aid, so if u are going to fall out your head could be near the propella and the kill cord wouldnt of been pulled out cos ur leg is still in the boat. ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:03pm
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ouch
------------- Josh Preater http://www.bu22.co.uk"> BUZZING IS FUN
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Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:20pm
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Garry...and in an ideal world no one would ever capsize anyway!!!! Others...the reason you wear them round the leg is nopt to do with slackness, it's so you dont get the thing wrapped round your wheel/throttle. ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 04 Jun 06 at 9:51pm
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ok heres what i got told on my power boat instructors course 1 Kill cords should be around the arm unless of the telephone cord style to take up the slack(this stops it sliding off as you fall out) 2 SAFETY BOATS have 2 people (coaching boats can have 1) 3 The rya specified length for a kill cord is = 1 meter (3 feet) what is a kill cord for? = KILL THE ENGINE when you fall over board - all these suggestions for longer cord or a extending cord DEFEAT the kill cords main purpose!!!!!!!! there was an example given of a guy who used an extending dog lead for a kill cord, when he fell off the boat. He couldnt understand why the engine didnt stop! ------------- lifes to short to sail slow boats! RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007 |
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 9:48am
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i think the idea of an extending one which when yanked like a seat belt will no longer extend and just comes out. Otherwise, when moving marks, get your crew or just becareful about moving around. ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Posted By: Granite
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 8:27pm
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You should stop the engine when working ground tackle especialy if you are on your own. Just imagine what would happen if just after you have put the weight over the side the line flipped over the throttle and pulled it into gear in up to full power? ------------- If it doesn't break it's too heavy; if it does it wasn't built right |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 9:06pm
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If that happened the killcord would do its job ... ------------- |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 9:41pm
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Just to add my 2p.. If you check you club insurance I think you will find that wearing of a killcord is mandatory. On ours we have to wear the killcord and have a spare 'key' so if the driver goes overboard the engine can be restarted by the crew. We have the new style morse controls which have a spare killcoard 'key' clipped in (again an insurance requirement for the new controls). As for wearing on the leg it is fine as long as you adjust the ankle strap so it will not slip off. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 05 Jun 06 at 10:06pm
Indeedy, but would you rather have an evening sail at a club "at your own risk" with no safety cover, or at a club where you have a paid qualified member of staff in an up to date and well equipped RIB looking after you? They're just guidelines at the end of the day... ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Phat Bouy
Date Posted: 06 Jun 06 at 4:53am
You know you are getting old when the rescue crew seems so young ! ------------- Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho |