raking rigs
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1763
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 2:23pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: raking rigs
Posted By: phantom871
Subject: raking rigs
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 11:02am
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My new boat has a raking rig. This is new to me and I was hoping the following could be clarified. 1 Upwind do I rake or not? 2 Down wind do i rake or not? 3 Will the rake affect my pointing upwind? I am the right weight for the boat if not slightly too heavy so should I leave the rake alone with the mast upright until its really blowing.
Thanks for your advise
------------- If its bent pull harder |
Replies:
Posted By: Ellie
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 1:08pm
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on the merlin we leave the mast upright till it gets breezy enough that the boom spends more time eased than it does in (or when we see a squall caming down the course) downwind even in a blow u want the rake forward i think, reaches if its real windy we tend to keep the it raked back. i guess it depend how easy it is to play with how much u change it. we do quite abit in the merlin if its breezy coz of the one string raking system thingy ma bobs. i guess its basically when u are getting overpowered on the beat knock the rig back abit. it helps too to pop the plate up abit, keeps the center of effort of something or other in the right place anyhoo thats what we do, not sure if its right but it works for us! have fun with ur new boat! ellie |
Posted By: phantom871
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 2:17pm
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Cheers for the info How does the raked rig affect the pointing would it make it possible to point higher. / ------------- If its bent pull harder |
Posted By: Ellie
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 2:31pm
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i think it does yeah...not 100% sure but it makes sense so...
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Posted By: Olly4088
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 2:31pm
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I had the raking rig system on my phantom you only rake the mast back when its blowing other wise as ellie said leave it upright. With regard to pointing im not to sure it shouldnt make to much difference, Russell who posts on her sometimes is very good in a phantom and he will be able to help you out with most things
------------- Phantom 1298 |
Posted By: Bruce Starbuck
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 3:39pm
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You need specific Phantom or at least single sail rig advice here. I know that on a rig with a jib, if you rake back too early, then your pointing will suffer. Conversely, if you want to point, keep the rig more upright. Haven't got a clue if this is true for single sail boats though.
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Posted By: gonzo
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 5:12pm
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From what ive learnt in my time of sailing cats not sure if it applies her is that the further forward you ggo the greater power you have but less pointing you will achieve, so if you rake it back as it the wind blows you will achieve less power but more pointing ability. Again not to suire how this stands on a single sail boat or even a mono hull for that as you cant really rake a 9er mast that much all seems to be bend. ------------- Go Big or Go home or sail a 49er!!! |
Posted By: phantom871
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 5:40pm
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Yesterdays wind was poor so I left it upright! I will see on wednesday!
Cheers ------------- If its bent pull harder |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 9:06pm
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Start off with an upright mast then drop your shrouds 1hole-1.5holes so youve got a Slight rake and use that as your bench mark and work from there. From the boats ive sailed it always seems that a more upright mast is quicker downwind and generally more powered up, although upwind having it raked back a bit will help with pointing but at the expense of power. Like i say, get a bench mark setting and work from there. Im sure if you get the email addy for the top guy in the class he'll email you back with some general settings to work with. Doug |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 9:14pm
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by raking the rig the shrouds bend the mast and flatten the sail. this means you have less power but because the sail is flatter it is faster! when raked your pointing will suffer but you should be going fast enough for the foils to create more lift and enabling your boat to point higher and faster. im pretty certain this applies to all modern rigs. ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15 May 06 at 10:30pm
I take it you're assuming then that he has a fixed forstay.....? Phantoms forestays are adjustable meaning you can rake the rig back without adding any addition rig tension. Doug |
Posted By: nathan
Date Posted: 16 May 06 at 8:43am
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Just raking the rig will increase prebend, even using the same rig tension, with a rig with spreaders. The spreaders work at a depper angle, applying more fore/aft bend in the rig, whilst giving less sideways support. I believe.. |
Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 16 May 06 at 12:28pm
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raking the stick back is worth it in a blow but don't go crazy because
you can have more easily adjusted (while saiing) impact on the sail
shape using the cunningham and kicker to induce twist and flatten the
entry for de-powering. A flatter sail shape should help your
pointing but remember, the flatter you go, the less power you are
potentially developing so you'll be higher but not neccessarily faster
and you should definitely dump the cunningham, a bit of kicker and the
rake back when turning downwind - if you've got lowers fitted they'll
stop inversion and keep the bottom of the mast straight ... worth experimenting and also asking other guys in the fleet about trickier to judge things like batten tension.... ------------- Feeling sorry for vegans since it became the latest fad to claim you are one |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 16 May 06 at 1:21pm
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The best place to get class specific information is nearly always the relevant class association. The Phantoms have a web discussion page - try asking them.
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Posted By: Bumble
Date Posted: 18 May 06 at 10:39pm
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I might be years out of date (I get that alot these days) but I thought a
raking rig for the phantom ment having a forestay that is adjustable. If that is the case and things are as they used to be, the term raking is a bit of a miss-nomer. Tis configuration should be called an 'allows the rig to bend if you use enough kicker' system. I think the more abstact name clears it up for all, The rig Ellie was describing on the Merlin - now that is a 'raking rig'! |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 19 May 06 at 6:59am
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i was under the impression that the rig on the phantom these days was infact the same as the set up on the merlin in which it allows you to rake it differently on different points of sail...? ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 19 May 06 at 8:55am
I believe that is correct. Most of the 'lardy' boys at my club are looking at a 1 string adjustment system. I would add that I believe with a carbon stick rig tension is more important than with a tin stick. When they all had tin sticks they only ever needed to adjust the forestay to control the power. On the Blaze I have an adjustable forestay but we do not run any rig tension at all. Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: phantom871
Date Posted: 19 May 06 at 6:55pm
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I have posted similar on there but sometimes the response of the masses is better for an overall picture. The current set up is an adjustable forestay running up to the mast down the mast and through a muscle box.that is deck mounted. Its simple and works as the muscle box is lubed up properly! I need some wind to try it!
------------- If its bent pull harder |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 19 May 06 at 7:05pm
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Will that change the actual rake of the mast, or just the tension in the shrouds? ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |