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Video from the Swift / Musto event

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1695
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 8:59pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Video from the Swift / Musto event
Posted By: Bram
Subject: Video from the Swift / Musto event
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 5:34am

 

This is a bit of preliminary video from the Swift / Musto regatta that was recently completed in Florida.  Look for a much more complete and professional video in the future.<a href=" http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=12349&CID=24967 - short clips '>http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=12349&CID=24 967">short clips</a> 



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Bram



Replies:
Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 5:37am

 

Somehow the link did not work so you'll have to cut and paste. http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=12349&CID=24967 - http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=12349&CID=2496 7

Sorry

Bram



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Bram


Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 7:21am
cool videos, one of those guys nearly took a bit hit from losing his footing on the trap

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Jp Indoe
Contender 518
Buzz591
Chew Valley Sailing club
Bristol


Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 8:45am
how did the event go then? What were the speed comparisons??

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international moth - "what what?"


Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 12:32pm
It does look like he's struggling. Maybe he doesn't have much trapeze experience.

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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 12:42pm
Looks like he let go of the tiller to drop the kite and the boat started to round up by itself.


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 4:16pm

Originally posted by Strawberry

It does look like he's struggling. Maybe he doesn't have much trapeze experience.

Actually,  all of this video was taken of Kris Henderson on one of his first sails in a Swift.  Later we will show video of Kris near the end of the event.  He is an amazing skiff sailor who was able to master the Swift in 8 or 9 days of sailing.  The wind was at 12 to 15 knots. 

Notice that after he screwed up the douse, he recovered in time to bear away to miss the leeward mark, round up, drop to his knees on the gunwale to adjust the cunno and vang, and get on with sailing to weather.

Normally, we put the tiller behind the knee that is on the wing for the douse.  We do set up a rate of rotation toward rounding during the douse.  This allows us to carry the kite right to the mark and head out immediately for the rounding.  The sheet has only about 4 feet of total play so when you  grab it at the block after the douse it will be fully sheeted by the time you are out on the wire.

Bram  



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Bram


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 4:49pm

Originally posted by Prince Buster

how did the event go then? What were the speed comparisons??

The event was great.  Both the Swift and Musto guys had a good time.  We completed 11 races in 4 days of sailing and the clinics we excellant.  The racing was held mostly in winds between 8 and 18 knots 

We invited the Mustos guys to race with us and Paul (from UK) actually won the first race.  After that the Mustos only started with us a few more times with mixed results.  I think the overall feeling was that the boats race very well together (very close).  It was difficult to reach a lot of conclusions because I was the only experienced Swift sailor and at 62 don't see myself as a serious contender (I finished 2nd in the regatta--Kris won with only 4 days of Swift sailing prior to the racing). 

We had a lot of new skiff sailors with new Swifts and it was amazing to see the progress during the event.  To see guys who hadn't sailed for 15 years learn to sail a Swift in 12 to 15 knots of breeze was an eye opener for me.  Clearly, I've been underestimating the talent of the average middle aged sailor (often guys coming back to the sport from keel boats).

A higher quality video that tracks Kris' progress will be finished in a couple of weeks.  In the end, he made two sail gybing from wire to wire (in 14 knots) look like childs play.  We have a large group of experienced skiff sailors coming into the class and it will be exciting to watch as the level of competition improves rapidly. 

 



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Bram


Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Bram

Originally posted by Strawberry

It does look like he's struggling. Maybe he doesn't have much trapeze experience.

He is an amazing skiff sailor who was able to master the Swift in 8 or 9 days of sailing.

I wasn't criticising his sailing of the Swift, just his shoddy trapeze technique! I would have thought that was transferable from boat to boat.



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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Strawberry

Originally posted by Bram

Originally posted by Strawberry

It does look like he's struggling. Maybe he doesn't have much trapeze experience.

He is an amazing skiff sailor who was able to master the Swift in 8 or 9 days of sailing.

I wasn't criticising his sailing of the Swift, just his shoddy trapeze technique! I would have thought that was transferable from boat to boat.

Thanks for clarifying that Stawberry.  Perhaps you could post some video of yourself going through the manuevers on a single handed skiff.  A kind of "how to" by Srawberry. 



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Bram


Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 8:59pm
like the look of the boat Bram

-------------
49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!

http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country


Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Bram

Originally posted by Strawberry

Originally posted by Bram

Originally posted by Strawberry

It does look like he's struggling. Maybe he doesn't have much trapeze experience.

He is an amazing skiff sailor who was able to master the Swift in 8 or 9 days of sailing.

I wasn't criticising his sailing of the Swift, just his shoddy trapeze technique! I would have thought that was transferable from boat to boat.

Thanks for clarifying that Stawberry.  Perhaps you could post some video of yourself going through the manuevers on a single handed skiff.  A kind of "how to" by Srawberry. 

Bring the boat and the camera to the UK and I'll show you how it's done



-------------
Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 9:25pm
Oh a challenge. thats what we like

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Jp Indoe
Contender 518
Buzz591
Chew Valley Sailing club
Bristol


Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 9:46pm

I'll leave it to Rick. Here he demonstrates a very good trapeze technique. Just needs to get onto the balls of his feet!



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Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry


Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 9:59pm
and Iain Renilson would tell u to get him shoulders out

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Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 29 Apr 06 at 11:46pm
haha, a trapeze helming masterclass from stuberry tinner... better set aside all of 5 mins for that eh 

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http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb


Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 30 Apr 06 at 11:49am
Hi Bram, anychance of posting your video anywhere eles? As Windows
media player for Mac doesn't support a streaming file at the moment.
and I'd like to see it.

Cheers




Originally posted by Bram

 


Somehow the link did not work so you'll have to cut and paste.
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?
XID=12349&CID=24967
- http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?
XID=12349&CID=2496 7


Sorry


Bram



-------------
http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group


Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: 30 Apr 06 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Hi Bram, anychance of posting your video anywhere eles? As Windows
media player for Mac doesn't support a streaming file at the moment.
and I'd like to see it.

Cheers



Same here on linux


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 30 Apr 06 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Hi Bram, anychance of posting your video anywhere eles? As Windows
media player for Mac doesn't support a streaming file at the moment.
and I'd like to see it.

Cheers




Originally posted by Bram

Jack,

Our video guy (a Swift Sailor) will be doing a more professional job with more video soon.  He also pointed out the problems that you've described and will have a fix and better video in a week or two (he's in the middle of getting married).

For everyone who's not on a Mac, here's a little cleaner version of the video (this is my first experience at video editing so go easy),

http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=12775&CID=25162 - http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?XID=12775&CID=2516 2

Bram


Somehow the link did not work so you'll have to cut and paste.
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequest.asp?
XID=12349&CID=2496 7


Sorry


Bram



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Bram


Posted By: swiftsolo.org
Date Posted: 01 May 06 at 10:45am

Hi Bram,

It was great to meet you in sunny Florida.

I haven't been able to view the video but I can say that Kris Henderson's boat handling ability is some of the best I have seen. If people wanted to see crap trapeze technique they only needed to point the camera in my direction!!

It was really interesting seeing the MPS and Swift Solo together. They are similar in performance but very different in character. The Swift Solo is a much easier boat to sail than the MPS. I sailed both and really enjoyed them.

On a sailing difficulty scale with 10 being hard and 1 really easy I would place the boats I have sailed recently as follows:

MPS 9/10

59er 8/10

Swift Solo 7.5/10

Being as objective as I can - check out my signaure I would summarise the two boats as follows:-

MPS

Responsive - neat clean design. Boat "unsticks" nicely downwind. Tippy. Hard to tack. Large gap between gunwhale and rack.

Swift Solo

Good looking boat. Really nice powered up feeling going to windward. Unified main/ jib sheeting really works. With practice very easy to tack fast. You have to build it yourself. More room for improvement with the rig. Stable platform.

I really think both boats are good designs. The MPS is clean and pure. The Swift Solo is sophisticated and powerful. I didn't sail the Swift in 20 knots but in 15 it was very very controllable. I suspect that in the long term the Swift Solo will do better than the MPS as it will appeal to a broader cross section of the sailing world.

  



-------------
Building a Swift Solo
http://www.aussieswift.livesaildie.com - First Australian Swift Solo
Sailing F28 Tri - family cruiser


Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 01 May 06 at 3:10pm

Originally posted by swiftsolo.org

I suspect that in the long term the Swift Solo will do better than the MPS as it will appeal to a broader cross section of the sailing world.

People building their own boats is pretty rare these days. A tiny minority of people have the space or time or even desire to do it this - hence SMOD popularity. Most people have far more disposable cash than they do time.



Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 01 May 06 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by swiftsolo.org

Hi Bram,

It was great to meet you in sunny Florida.

I haven't been able to view the video but I can say that Kris Henderson's boat handling ability is some of the best I have seen. If people wanted to see crap trapeze technique they only needed to point the camera in my direction!!

It was really interesting seeing the MPS and Swift Solo together. They are similar in performance but very different in character. The Swift Solo is a much easier boat to sail than the MPS. I sailed both and really enjoyed them.

On a sailing difficulty scale with 10 being hard and 1 really easy I would place the boats I have sailed recently as follows:

MPS 9/10

59er 8/10

Swift Solo 7.5/10

Being as objective as I can - check out my signaure I would summarise the two boats as follows:-

MPS

Responsive - neat clean design. Boat "unsticks" nicely downwind. Tippy. Hard to tack. Large gap between gunwhale and rack.

Swift Solo

Good looking boat. Really nice powered up feeling going to windward. Unified main/ jib sheeting really works. With practice very easy to tack fast. You have to build it yourself. More room for improvement with the rig. Stable platform.

I really think both boats are good designs. The MPS is clean and pure. The Swift Solo is sophisticated and powerful. I didn't sail the Swift in 20 knots but in 15 it was very very controllable. I suspect that in the long term the Swift Solo will do better than the MPS as it will appeal to a broader cross section of the sailing world.

  

We really lucked out on the weather ah mate?  I've come to realize that you guys who sail in warm water have a real advantage.  You'll rarely see guys stay out in Puget Sound after 5 capsizes but I watched both Musto and Swifts guys stay out much longer in Florida. 

Your observations about the boats were pretty much echoed by everyone who sailed both.  The Musto guys were great to share their boats and in fairness their boats are half the price (unless you build your own Swift).  I think the Musto will do a very good job of capturing the "just out of  college" crowd (potentially a large market).  Most of this younger group lack the time to build a Swift and the money to buy one. You likely noticed that Swift sailors are mostly over 35 with stable careers.  More than 50% of Swift sailors own keel boats and have come back to  high performace sailing.

Regarding the sheeting system: 

With most equipment oriented sports,  the future is likely in integration of systems (like the auto main/jib sheeting, spin halyard/pole launch, spin halyard auto cleat/uncleat systems).    Look for a single string system on the Swift soon that completely adjusts the rig flex and leach tensions as the wind velocity changes.  After 9 knots of breeze, you'll simply pull the string harder as the wind blows harder.  We are very close to having this worked out. It won't require anything that you don't already have in your kit or can make and install easily.  You saw the early version on my boat--it works very well and was likely responsible for my good finishes as the wind increased (it now requires two strings).  Talk to me more about this before you bond your deck as we can probably save you some time on pulling in backing the hard way.

We're looking forward to coming to a Swift Championship Down Under in the not too distant future.

And finally:

After several postings, I'm a bit dissapointed that neither you Aussies or the POMs have commented on the lines of my boat (you can see that Greg and I are appreciating them).  Perhaps you just don't have an eye like us Yanks.

Bram

 

Bram



-------------
Bram


Posted By: swiftsolo.org
Date Posted: 02 May 06 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Bram

Originally posted by swiftsolo.org

Hi Bram,

It was great to meet you in sunny Florida.

I haven't been able to view the video but I can say that Kris Henderson's boat handling ability is some of the best I have seen. If people wanted to see crap trapeze technique they only needed to point the camera in my direction!!

It was really interesting seeing the MPS and Swift Solo together. They are similar in performance but very different in character. The Swift Solo is a much easier boat to sail than the MPS. I sailed both and really enjoyed them.

On a sailing difficulty scale with 10 being hard and 1 really easy I would place the boats I have sailed recently as follows:

MPS 9/10

59er 8/10

Swift Solo 7.5/10

Being as objective as I can - check out my signaure I would summarise the two boats as follows:-

MPS

Responsive - neat clean design. Boat "unsticks" nicely downwind. Tippy. Hard to tack. Large gap between gunwhale and rack.

Swift Solo

Good looking boat. Really nice powered up feeling going to windward. Unified main/ jib sheeting really works. With practice very easy to tack fast. You have to build it yourself. More room for improvement with the rig. Stable platform.

I really think both boats are good designs. The MPS is clean and pure. The Swift Solo is sophisticated and powerful. I didn't sail the Swift in 20 knots but in 15 it was very very controllable. I suspect that in the long term the Swift Solo will do better than the MPS as it will appeal to a broader cross section of the sailing world.

  

We really lucked out on the weather ah mate?  I've come to realize that you guys who sail in warm water have a real advantage.  You'll rarely see guys stay out in Puget Sound after 5 capsizes but I watched both Musto and Swifts guys stay out much longer in Florida. 

Your observations about the boats were pretty much echoed by everyone who sailed both.  The Musto guys were great to share their boats and in fairness their boats are half the price (unless you build your own Swift).  I think the Musto will do a very good job of capturing the "just out of  college" crowd (potentially a large market).  Most of this younger group lack the time to build a Swift and the money to buy one. You likely noticed that Swift sailors are mostly over 35 with stable careers.  More than 50% of Swift sailors own keel boats and have come back to  high performace sailing.

Regarding the sheeting system: 

With most equipment oriented sports,  the future is likely in integration of systems (like the auto main/jib sheeting, spin halyard/pole launch, spin halyard auto cleat/uncleat systems).    Look for a single string system on the Swift soon that completely adjusts the rig flex and leach tensions as the wind velocity changes.  After 9 knots of breeze, you'll simply pull the string harder as the wind blows harder.  We are very close to having this worked out. It won't require anything that you don't already have in your kit or can make and install easily.  You saw the early version on my boat--it works very well and was likely responsible for my good finishes as the wind increased (it now requires two strings).  Talk to me more about this before you bond your deck as we can probably save you some time on pulling in backing the hard way.

We're looking forward to coming to a Swift Championship Down Under in the not too distant future.

And finally:

After several postings, I'm a bit dissapointed that neither you Aussies or the POMs have commented on the lines of my boat (you can see that Greg and I are appreciating them).  Perhaps you just don't have an eye like us Yanks.

Bram

 

Bram

GDay Bram,

I'm really looking forward to getting mine finished as I think I'll probably be able to get as much sailing time in mine in a year as you guys from cooler climes can get in 3! In the middle of Summer here our sailing waters tend to be full of jellyfish so that is a pretty good reason to not get wet as well! The great thing about it being a singlehander is that if you look out the office window and it is a nice 10 - 15 knots of breeze you can go out without having to worry about whether your crew can make it or not.

Keep in touch about the single string to depower concept. We need to keep finding ways to make these adjustments simple so that we can keep our eyes out of the boat. - There were a couple of reasons at Fort DeSoto to keep your eyes in the boat though................... 

It would be great to see a Swift - Solo Regatta here in OZ in the not too distant future.  

Cheers,

 

Steve



-------------
Building a Swift Solo
http://www.aussieswift.livesaildie.com - First Australian Swift Solo
Sailing F28 Tri - family cruiser


Posted By: timnoyce
Date Posted: 02 May 06 at 10:58am
I'll give you that mate... she does look pretty smooth. One thing that I have noticed is the obviously generous wetted surface area compared to that of the musto.

What is the performance like in really light airs? Is it possible to really get forward and lift the stern out? I realise that stability and performance almost always result in a compromise one way or the other...




-------------
http://www.facebook.com/bearfootdesign - BEARFOOT DESIGN
Cherub 2648 - Comfortably Numb


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 02 May 06 at 4:18pm

Originally posted by timnoyce

I'll give you that mate... she does look pretty smooth. One thing that I have noticed is the obviously generous wetted surface area compared to that of the musto.

What is the performance like in really light airs? Is it possible to really get forward and lift the stern out? I realise that stability and performance almost always result in a compromise one way or the other...


Tim,

The photos are a bit deceptive.  The Swift is about 15% shorter than a 49er but has nearly 17% less wetted surface.  When you sit forward (just aft of the shrouds), the stern is just clear of the water in light air.  It is in this condition that the relative speed of the Swift is extremely fast compared to 49ers and the newest I-14's.  That is not to say that it is faster than either--it is not. It is just that the racing becomes much closer with those two as the wind drops.

You are right about the complexity of trade offs.  We are lucky that the Swift is fast since we have been focused almost entirely on the tactical aspect of sailing.  I believe that the sailing community with soon agree that it is simply the fastest tacking and gybing skiff on the water--wire to wire.   

 



-------------
Bram


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 03 May 06 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by m_liddell

Originally posted by swiftsolo.org

I suspect that in the long term the Swift Solo will do better than the MPS as it will appeal to a broader cross section of the sailing world.

People building their own boats is pretty rare these days. A tiny minority of people have the space or time or even desire to do it this - hence SMOD popularity. Most people have far more disposable cash than they do time.

I think you are mostly correct, especially in Europe.  The furture depends on commercially built boats to at least some degree.  We do have 78 Swifts, either completed or under way, that are mostly home built in the US.

We are working on getting production going on commercially built Swifts ( couple are being built as we speak).  We think we can provide the market with a good supply of boats without the downside of SMODs.

The picture below is of USA 002 (the first thoroughbred Swift).  This boat has five years of heavy use and is still as fast as any Swift on the water.  That deck has never been refinished!

Bram   

 



-------------
Bram


Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 03 May 06 at 5:52pm
Now that's one sexy beast!!

-------------
Greatfully Sponsored By
www.allgoodfun.com
Int 14 GBR 1503!!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 May 06 at 9:31pm
Bram,
Is there any chance of getting some close up shots showing the main/jib sheeting arrangment, im quite intreagued as to how it all works.

Thanks
Doug


Posted By: Bram
Date Posted: 04 May 06 at 4:20am

Originally posted by Doug.H

Bram,
Is there any chance of getting some close up shots showing the main/jib sheeting arrangment, im quite intreagued as to how it all works.

Thanks
Doug

Doug,

Sorry for what's going to seem like a circular answer!

I'll write a piece about its' elements sometime fairly soon--with pictures.  It's a bit complex since seven elements must be in proper proportion to make it work (forestay angle, jib foot length, relativity attachment point on the launcher throat, boom height, boom length, bridle base width, and purchase of both the main and jib).  If any one of these is not correct, the system will not stay in sync--at least not as presently configured.

I'll post it on the swiftsolo.org website when I get the explaination complete (likely two months).

Bram



-------------
Bram


Posted By: MRJP BUZZ 585
Date Posted: 04 May 06 at 8:29am
i like the wheels they look chunky, be good for britsh beach sailors as most wheels o launching trolleys are paper thin (well nearly)



-------------
Josh Preater

http://www.bu22.co.uk">BUZZING IS FUN



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04 May 06 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Bram

Originally posted by Doug.H

Bram,
Is there any chance of getting some close up shots showing the main/jib sheeting arrangment, im quite intreagued as to how it all works.

Thanks
Doug

Doug,

Sorry for what's going to seem like a circular answer!

I'll write a piece about its' elements sometime fairly soon--with pictures.  It's a bit complex since seven elements must be in proper proportion to make it work (forestay angle, jib foot length, relativity attachment point on the launcher throat, boom height, boom length, bridle base width, and purchase of both the main and jib).  If any one of these is not correct, the system will not stay in sync--at least not as presently configured.

I'll post it on the swiftsolo.org website when I get the explaination complete (likely two months).

Bram



Thanks Bram, much appreciated

Doug


Posted By: Andrewst
Date Posted: 04 May 06 at 6:03pm

Originally posted by MRJP BUZZ 585

i like the wheels they look chunky, be good for britsh beach sailors as most wheels o launching trolleys are paper thin (well nearly)

Anyone know where you could get some of these for a launching trolley in the UK. They would make it alot easier getting up a shingle beach.



Posted By: TeamFugu
Date Posted: 04 May 06 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Andrewst

Originally posted by MRJP BUZZ 585

i like the wheels they look chunky, be good for britsh beach sailors as most wheels o launching trolleys are paper thin (well nearly)


Anyone know where you could get some of these for a launching trolley in the UK. They would make it alot easier getting up a shingle beach.


They are the same wheels that Seitek uses for their dollies. Some are wider than others but they are much better for the beaches of Florida than the MPS dollies that look like they are designed for ramps. The down side is that the dolly floats with the wheels on.

-------------
Live large, love life, and sail fast.
Swift Sol Home, http://swiftsolo.com



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