How much Lard will a Laser 4000 take?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1623
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 10:34am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: How much Lard will a Laser 4000 take?
Posted By: damp_freddie
Subject: How much Lard will a Laser 4000 take?
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 4:42pm
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What's the optimum weight and sizes for the laserer 4000? I have heard 1) equalisation works in a farily narrow range of wieghts and heights for best performance 2) it has a fairly obvious upper weight limit to remain competitive heard 28 stone for the latter Guy round here has one, so apart from saving my øres up it's this or .....snipes...yawn |
Replies:
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 4:47pm
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No Stu! back! leave the 4 tonners alone! Theres a whole thread for that kind of behavour over there ----> ------------- |
Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 4:51pm
You know, a lot of very high end sailors go and sail the snipe in their 'time off' presumably they are 'up-toxing' at the time How much lard on the 4000 though? |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 4:55pm
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too many jokes.... must resist...... joke overload ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: Dan_K
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 5:21pm
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the 4000 can take shed loads of weight, the european champions won with a crew off the end of the scale and it wasnt a windy week! it also goes really well with a big helm too (like doug baker, multiple national and european champ) the weight equalisation really does work well |
Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 5:32pm
Pray tell what " one person at a time please" top of the scale is this? 30 stone? |
Posted By: Pondling
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 6:12pm
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we are talking about just one person yeah? u have to be FAT! no not really im just jokin ------------- Sailors don't get old!!! They get a little dinghy (or skiff, or yacht...) Feva 251 RS200 1117 RS200 897 |
Posted By: kasey3000
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 6:27pm
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Right.... On the 4000 weight chart the weight's range from 59kg to 94kg... so you can have a 94kg helm and a 94kg crew and sail on no racks and have no weights in the boat.... you can of course still sail the boat if both helm and crew are over 94kg but you just have to use the setting on the chart that you are closest to.... i.e at the 94crew and 94helm setting hope that all makes sense....I've been studying algebra most of the day and its scrambled my head up!
------------- 49er 908 |
Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 6:36pm
It does take quite a lot weight yes. And still remains competitive with the others. Generally it's not the weight in the boat which is the problem it's the number of ex champions that sail the boats  . But its still fun enough.
------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 05 Apr 06 at 7:20pm
We sailed one for 4 years with an all up weight of 26 stone (I'll let you work out the foreign weights )Tho we weren't up the front (we aren't that good!)we were always far enough up the fleet to show the equilisation was very good.As a weight equilised boat I don't think you can get better(except the 5000)------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: allanorton
Date Posted: 07 Apr 06 at 5:02pm
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What's the hull weight for a 4k? ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 07 Apr 06 at 5:30pm
dont go there itll only start the cherub sailors on a rant! ------------- 600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it. Also International 14, 1318 |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 07 Apr 06 at 5:51pm
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Most of them are away sailing. u'l be fine. But its not called a 4 tonner for no reason ------------- 
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Posted By: BBSCFaithfull
Date Posted: 07 Apr 06 at 7:13pm
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umm methinks in the region of 60-85 kilos i can't remeber off hand ------------- Greatfully Sponsored By www.allgoodfun.com Int 14 GBR 1503!! |
Posted By: phantom_iv
Date Posted: 07 Apr 06 at 7:17pm
| 80kg apparantly - only 1kg more than the 3000! |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 07 Apr 06 at 11:48pm
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The 4000 was the first boat that Laser used foam sandwich. So its not impossibly heavy but it is pretty solid so not as light as an 800 which is about a foot longer. However the 4000 has an ali rig and being quite a tall one that adds a bit of weight and then there's that pole - they don't come much longer - that too is ali and so adds a good bit of weight. It also carries equalisation weights. So, all up, its quite a heavy machine for a high performance boat however it has a big board and the stern is not too flat so it doesn't stick and stall like a 800 in the light stuff. The pole has wing-wangs which helps it run a bit deeper in the light stuff as well. The sail area although large is not huge and the rig is very adjustable so its great fun when its really windy. All things considered it goes reasonable over a wide wind range but like any trapeze boat its difficult to sail up to its handicap if you aren't using the trapeze and in the really light stuff a conventional spinnaker boat will leave it for dead, downwind. Its a well designed boat which I think would be marginally improved by forgetting the weights and give everybody a wider rack setting so that even the heavy wieghts have a click or two on the racks. Personally I'd like to see an extra click for every 10 years the helm is over 30! The performance equalisation works and so there are quite a lot of women on the circuit and there are quite a lot of big blokes. Although still a lot of fun I would have thought more than 180 kg all up is going to make it hard to reach the top of the fleet, but at club level the challenge is staying upright and falling over is many times the disadvantage of a few 10s of kilograms. |
Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 08 Apr 06 at 1:16pm
Actually under the guise of Performance Sailcraft Ltd they did the
tasar in closed cell foam sandwich and I believe the deck of the 28'.
They couldn't build either down to a cost and partly due to this and
the recession I think- they went bust.
Take your good pointers on all up crew weight. They put together a very good package for the price point at time of build, but I think it cries out for carbon if it was on paper today, and we have the 800 and 59er for those who want it. I hurt my back dragging one up a flat but soft beach - probably it's weight and low skiff style hull. |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 08 Apr 06 at 2:12pm
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You're right, I believe a carbon rig would make a significant difference to the 4000. Having sailed the 800 and then the 4000 i was amazed at how you could feel all that weight aloft. Take coming into the leeward mark - remember these are fast boats - as you round up you can feel the momentum try to heel the boat as you turn in the 4000. The solution is of course to use a wider radius, but I have many years sailing a Laser where you get used to quick changes of direction. I've recently removed the racks from my 4000 - they are quite light - its the mast that's the problem. The class will fade but then Laser might let the association run it and then there's a chance they will allow a carbon rig - then it will revive because its fundamentally a good design. Meantime I wish they'd get rid of the correctors it just seems wrong to carry all that lead in a high performance boat. Get rid of the lead and adjust the rack positions to compensate - you'll still have a good equalisation system and the lightweights will be able to pull the boat up the beach! |
Posted By: furtive
Date Posted: 10 Apr 06 at 11:32am
Surely you'd then just have half a good equalisation system! The lightweights could still keep up in breeze, because they have the racks out, but the heavyweights would suffer in the light stuff because the lightweights aren't carrying any lead. (If you are a lightweight get some big guys to help you pull the boat up the beach - it's a very friendly fleet!) |
Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 10 Apr 06 at 2:14pm
Yeah exactly They are well known for dragging their rocker in light winds. The more you can get out the water the better. I guess a windy Lake Giardia would favour bigger-boned teams versus say a light in lands or Hayling Island? |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 10 Apr 06 at 10:29pm
| Furtive is right - I don't have a reasoned reply I just fancy sailing the thing with less weight and more rack! |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 10 Apr 06 at 10:36pm
We sailed our first 4000 with no weight and full racks before they confirmed the weight equilisation.It was very quick! then the equilisation came in and we ended up on no weight and no rack !!! ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |