Boss and Spice
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1462
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 6:38am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Boss and Spice
Posted By: Wave Rider
Subject: Boss and Spice
Date Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 6:11pm
|
Has anyone ever sailed either of these? Are they fun and fast? Whats the rig like? Good handicap for club racing? Cheers ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Replies:
Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 6:20pm
Yeah sailed both - Boss is really fast and fun and is quite a handful. Spice seems more of a sunsail boat and i think its really uncool Its not that fast and when i sailed one in a F3-4 we were rarely twin-wiring.
------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 6:55pm
|
Never sailed the Boss but know the rigs on the boats can be pretty tricky. Had the 5000 for a few years and had no problems with it but my mate who had a Boss, seemed to have problems with his boat, wings snapping etc. Sailed the Spice before and my general impression of the boat was that it was seriously under powered, didn't feel like a twin-string boat but saying that, both us were probably too big for the boat. Think the spice is basically a buzz hull with an iso rig but don't quote me on it! ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 7:08pm
|
Never sailed the Spice, but have sailed the Boss I personally didn't like it,it struggles to plane upwind and never felt that quick downhill.I'm biased but the 5000 is a great Club boat ! ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: hurricane
Date Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 8:52pm
|
the build quality of the boss seems rubbish or is that just topper boats from the 90's? ------------- lifes to short to sail slow boats! RIP Olympic Tornado 1976-2007 |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 12 Feb 06 at 10:33pm
|
Not exactly, White Formula made the Buzz, Iso and Boss, not too sure about the Spice. White Formula also produced the Hurricane 5.9 and I'd say the Hurricane is a cracking boat. Don't know if White Formula kitted the boats out with fittings though and that's the area I reckon that wasn't so good with the Iso and Buzz ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 8:50am
|
from what i heard it was topper who kitted the boats out with the fittings, which has always been a problem with topper was the finishing standards to their boats are terrible (just look at the omega!) ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 8:59am
| Whilst I only sailed a Boss once, and hated it so much I vowed never to get in one again, its worth noting that it came second in the ISAF trials that selected the 49er. A very distant second admittedly, but second, and with the rest, including the 5 Tonner (and the B14!) nowhere! |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 9:16am
|
its a shame that the B14 was a bit before its time perhaps as it is a far superior boat to the boss ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 12:05pm
Good morning!  Ive not sailed either but have played with a spice kite and its as close to ballooning as you can get without a wicker basket atached... ------------- |
Posted By: Robochimp
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 2:46pm
| both those boats are mingers |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 4:18pm
|
Not sailed the boss but it has the reputation of being a bit overweight with Topper pulling all sorts of tricks to convince people it wasn’t. I’ve sailed a Spice enough to be able to give an informed opinion. One thing people must realise is that it was sold as a LIGHTWEIGHTS intro twin wire boat as is basically a twin wire Buzz. Having said this it is still woefully underpowered upwind, two of us weighing in at 11stone each were not solidly twin wiring in a F4 which is pathetic. I remember overtaking one upwind with my 14 with both the crew sitting in while we were twin wiring. Downwind is not bad though, the spinnaker is big enough to get twin wiring relatively early if you are the right weight for the boat. It is not that fast and the bow rides really really high – but it is still quite fun. In my 14 we were twin wiring and sailing a good 15 sometimes 20 degrees lower than the spice while they were single wiring though. It is so easy to sail, it’s very hard to really get it wrong it’s a great boat to play around with for a few months as an intro to helming off the wire before moving on to something more serious really because there isn’t anything else like it around. You can take anyone with a tiny bit of sailing experience out in it and show them a good time. My old 14 still feels like a million bucks compared with the unrefined Topper boats costing over twice as much.
EDIT: In ref to the Sunsail comment - all the Spice's at sunsail clubs have been retired due to them being "too dangeriuous" for the guests! We resurrected ours as a staff only boat since we were fed up with sailing the RS800 single wire (with Al mast too!) and being hoplessly overpowered all the time |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 4:27pm
|
I used to use a Spice kite on the Strawberry, and didn't like it. It's too short, too long on the foot, and too deep. Basically, like a big yellow balloon.
------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: Alex C
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 4:44pm
|
i used to love that picture when i was younger. despite all the criticism the boat attracts i wouldn't say no to a ride in those sorts of conditions! the boss made a few major changes a few years ago, although i think it was really a case of 'too little too late'. supposedly the hull is 85kgs...... which is not that heavy. ------------- |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 7:13pm
|
but they still look cumbersome in the dinghy aprk compared to a penultimate 14 which is a fraction of the cost and weight for that and yet far far far more bang for your buck! ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 8:12pm
|
As I remember they went masthead on the kite and bigger in order to go faster. As they were already powered up on the kite in most conditions I imagine that they improved the VMG but didn't actually go sny faster in the water, just deeper. So, in a one design, why bother?
The trouble was that the 5 tonner and Boss were 1st generation english pseudo skiffs, based on the very un skiff like pre-amalgamation 14 but the 49er was wholly based on about 50th generation Australian Skiffs. On a hiding to nothing at the ISAF trials really when you think about it! The 800 was a deal better simply because by then thre was some understanding amongst UK pro designers about how skiff type boats should work, which there wasn't when the original two were drawn. |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 13 Feb 06 at 8:16pm
|
Yeah, the Boss was based on a 14 design, just stretched 2 feet and given a new rig, so its basically a snapshot of a 14 at the time. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 14 Feb 06 at 5:05pm
|
Lol urm yes i am not seriously considering one....the cherub is far superior and much more fun i am sre but (Turnturtle i have owned one for a fair few months now) i was just wondering what these two boats were like ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 14 Feb 06 at 7:30pm
|
Not good ethics at all, but the Boss conversions were put forward well after the Olympic Selectors, not sure exactly when they happened exactly but it was after 2000 and I think the aim was to rejuvinate the boat, not put it in place for Olympic selection. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 14 Feb 06 at 10:22pm
And instead it pretty much finished it off. There's a lesson there! |
Posted By: Shingle
Date Posted: 15 Feb 06 at 9:11am
|
QUOTE] You can't polish turds? ------------- Drink Feck girls! |
Posted By: Jamie
Date Posted: 15 Feb 06 at 9:59am
------------- www.sailfd.org/GBR - GBR Flying Dutchman |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 06 at 12:35pm
maby you want a shinier-than-average turd? ------------- |
Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 15 Feb 06 at 12:47pm
or maybe someone is talking turd ------------- International 14 1503 |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 15 Feb 06 at 7:20pm
|
what like saying the boats is a certain weight when its obviosuly twice that
------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 12:58am
|
Does anyone know if the 5000 moulds have been bought by anyone?
------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 3:26pm
thinking of building a carbon 5000 are you, last i heard they were given to the class association? does anyone know about this though? I htink it was Dinghy mag. tha ti read t in but not sure. I dont know if there have been anymore built from the mould and i cant find the class association website anywhere??? ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: far canal
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 4:20pm
|
Carbon on a 5000 you takin the p8ss
prob more like solid aluminium with a black bitumen coating ! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 6:58pm
A carbon 5000 sounds like it would finally be able to get up to the speed it should have always been at!! Enfact looking at lasers boats, like the 5000, 4000, the hull shapes and potential for the boats is well up there with the quickest if it werent for their obscene hull weights!! It looks as though the 3000 class have shown us all the light of what current boats can achieve with a lil weight loss programme. If the 3000 is as small as it is and has lost 30kg due to a new builder, just imagine the potential for the 5000!! And although im all for the 4000 going on a diet, the expression "if it aint broke, dont fix it" comes to mind. Its got a good circuit and obviously wouldnt want to run the risk of losing for a bit of a performance gain! ah well Doug |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 8:42pm
|
I'm not too sure how a Carbon 5000 would work out, the rig would have to be developed further to bring the whole boat down in weight and most likely you'd want to mod the sail-plan too. By that point you've totally changed the boat into something which will be much quicker than older 5ks, initially won't have too many boats (in class) to race against and what's the point when you've already got boats like the 14, 800 and 49er. If the people who have got the moulds could build the boats pretty cheaply, I feel this would be more beneficail for the class. Remember what happened to the Boss when they tried to revolutionise the design, I think Jim C is right and there is a lesson to be learnt there
------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Sumo
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 9:58pm
But a very strong lamp post that allows a big b*?$**** like myself to twin wire without breaking the dam thing. A proper blokes boat, vive la 5000! |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 10:04pm
AGREED ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 16 Feb 06 at 11:03pm
|
[/QUOTE] . A proper blokes boat, vive la 5000! [/QUOTE] It's a great boat long may it live ! ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
