Trapeze ropes
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1428
Printed Date: 19 Aug 25 at 2:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Trapeze ropes
Posted By: lozza
Subject: Trapeze ropes
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 2:22pm
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Has anybody had any experience with using rope instead of wire for trapezing? I understand that you can pick from excel D12, V12 or holt equivalent.
Cheers ------------- Life's a reach, then you gybe |
Replies:
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 3:01pm
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I know most of the new 'balls come with a rope as opposed to wire system. The reasoning is that there is less weight being thrown around upstairs (and many of the top guys like the feel they get over wire). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 3:29pm
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Dont use D12, unless you enjoy being hooked onto a spring!
Had V12 equivalent on the 49er and it was superb, so when a mate offered me his RS700 for the RS open at Chew and I broke his trapeze wires I looked through my rope bag and found a reel of D12, strung it all up with nice splices to enable me to keep the adjusters short, and the bloody stuff was like elastic. I hadnt appreciated the difference between D12 and V12. I'd set the height so that I could just hook on while sitting on the wings (gusty RS open at Chew you see)but when I pushed out I was absolutely flat, getting back in, in the massive wind holes, was tricky, and then the trap. lines would miracoulously shrink back to the point where I couldnt hook on again without standing up. I've now gone back to wire ! |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 3:32pm
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All the Musto's use rope traps - it's nice to be able to adjust the length for the conditions so you keep the amount of rope on the adjuster to a minimum. Hertzog 2.5mm is the stuff but it's hard to get now - I think there are similar types out there ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 3:36pm
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I just used bog standard sheathed dyneema on the Cherub...was a bit bouncy to start with but it's fine now. Loads cheaper too!
------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 4:07pm
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I believe Hertzog was a brand name for vectran core rope. There are now plenty of manufactures selling 2.5mm vectran core ropes - they will all work and offer a better solution than wire. Also you can cut them in an emergency which is worth a thought ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 5:12pm
Mmm, but the other side of that is that I've never had a wire wind itself round my feet but plenty of ropes have. Substitute feet for the neck that is very close to the trapeze line when you chuck it into windward and you have a very nasty possibility... After all the last foot is always rope that you can cut anyway. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 5:39pm
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We'll if you feel that way stick with wire ... TT - one of the biggest improvement with this system is that it's easy to splice and it's the splices that allow you to change the length by sliding the splices - so don't tie any knots. Make the loops big then slide the tail in and out to adjust the length. Rick Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 6:25pm
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IMHO no difference using rope on the trapeze, less weight but doesn't feel any more bouncy, obviously does when you first add it, but after that no probs. I also like the security of knowing that if it was ever caught around my neck or anything under water, i could whi[p out the knife and cut myself free....with wire your screwed ass we have found out... ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: Skiffe
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 7:13am
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On a 12 we use 4mm Dyneema with 8mm strops, we hang both traps of a strop. It works very well. As for the ends its easy to splice ------------- 12footers. The Only Way to FLY Remember Professionals built the titanic, Amateurs built the ark. |
Posted By: lozza
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 10:55am
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Cheers guys, will look into the vectran, now just need to sort out the twing system!
------------- Life's a reach, then you gybe |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 12:44pm
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I'm not convinced there's any benefit from using rope. Get a thin enough wire and it's probably about the same weight as wet rope, rope wears quicker than wire, rope is more likely to tangle, rope is (guessing) more expensive. I guess you can make it all yourself which is and advantage of sorts, it probably wears sails less as well. What have I overlooked that makes it attractive? ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 12:52pm
YES ... the fact that you can slide the splice up and down to adjust the length for the conditions so you have less adjuster rope hanging from the cleat. Plus of course the debated saftey issue. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 12:57pm
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OK. So if I don't buy into the theory that they are advantages... what else? ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 1:04pm
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Stay with wire then ... ------------- |
Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 1:08pm
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Bit of a flip answer there Rick. I'm genuinely interested as my wires have a few kinks and I will be replacing them in the next few months. ------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 1:11pm
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Not really ... as far as I am concerned the advantages have been detailed above. If you don't really feel that is enough just stay with wire. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Andrewst
Date Posted: 10 May 07 at 10:58pm
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I am looking to replace my trapeze lines with rope. Would you recommend D12, V12 or Excel Vectran The D12 and V12 allow an adjustable splice What diameter would you recommend I am thinking or 3mm!
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Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 10 May 07 at 11:57pm
| Now there's a disadvantage of rope. The trapeze wire/rope are a significant windage especially as the leeward unused ones are laying along the surface of the mainsail. I'd say 2mm wire would be much less windage than 3mm rope. |
Posted By: 29er397
Date Posted: 11 May 07 at 9:22am
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i used 2.5mm holt vectran stuff on my 600. I havn't had any issues so far (half a season). I'd make the splices a generous length at each end, that way if you spot any points that are wearing a bit, you can just move the entire rope up or down a bit and there will be a fresh bit of rope where the wear point is - an extra meter either end is a lot cheaper than an entriely new bit of rope, seems to work for me. On the windage side of things, would there really be much difference between a 2mm bit of wire and a 3mm bit of rope? aren't most shreouds 3mm anyway? can't remember how big the 600 ones are. Cheers ------------- http://www.kielderwatersc.org - Kielder Water Sailing Club |
Posted By: 49erGBR735HSC
Date Posted: 11 May 07 at 11:39am
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Holt Pro line is the direct equivalent of Herzog, think Holt has just given it a brand name. Comes in 2.5mm and 3.5mm, there is also Ultra-line (I think that's the name) comes in 3mm with a similar breaking load to the 3.5mm stuff, but slightly more expensive per metre. As Rick says the advantages over wire are quite high, able to adjust the splices plus is lighter and easy to replace. I'd be quite interested to compare the cost of wire to pro-line, the rope at 2.5mm costing about £1 a metre and the 3.5 stuff £1.80 per metre. ------------- Dennis Watson 49er GBR735 http://www.helensburghsailingclub.co.uk/ - Helensburgh S.C http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=560 - Boat Insurance from Noble Marine |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 11 May 07 at 12:18pm
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Ignore this advice! Whoever posted this was a complete divvy of the highest magnitude (and a tight git) Er, so that will be me then. After 3 years of cheapo trouble free sailing the trap snapped on the knot when I was going mach 9 with my foot in the toeloop. Cue instant capsize and me dangling over the hull of the boat by my foot, not funny. Somehow I got out without hurting my foot too badly, however I snapped a carbon stick the second it happened. I got some groovy hertzog style stuff from P&B, and the best bit is...it's YELLOW!! ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: a_stevo
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 6:12am
| we use 3mm dynema on the 12, replace it every yearor so 'cos they chafe pretty bad. good call to run them through some cover at the shackles or the trap fittings. |
Posted By: FreshScum
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 11:44am
| Some class rules limit the materials that trapeze wires may be made of. If they do, they usually say that to a certain distance from the mast, they must be made from wire. Worth checking. |
Posted By: Andrewst
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 12:10pm
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Should be ok its for a I14. I have ordered it now, 2.5mm excel D12. Hoefully should do the job. |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 12:21pm
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Top tip - I like it! ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 1:52pm
I remember another thread where we talked about breakable toe straps... are you reconsidering your choice now Iain?  ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: ivo.tedbury
Date Posted: 12 May 07 at 6:36pm
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Not sure about other Rs500s but our one that we have twin wire rigged has 3mm rope. It works fine and is considerably lighter than wire. It might also be better than wire in a lighting storm! ------------- Rs500 Twin Trapeze http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnRVhQCedPc |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 14 May 07 at 8:32am
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I remember another thread where we talked about breakable toe straps... are you reconsidering your choice now Iain? [/QUOTE] Yep!! Problem is on my boat there are so mant toeloops it would cost a small fortune if they were the proper things, I'm thinking about just replacing the rope with really heavy bungee. 'spose I could always go for the screws through car mat solution on the new boat... ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Dead Air
Date Posted: 16 May 07 at 7:55am
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I have seen the rope trap lines float out of the mast after a capsize, so make sure you have the little retainer things in!
I guess its one of those personal preference things, try another boat that has rope instead of wire, see which you prefer |
Posted By: bdu98252
Date Posted: 20 May 07 at 9:55pm
| If you look at any class where rope trapeze wires is not barred in the class rules it can be seen that the rope is the overwhelming. I have not seen 49er sailor using wire trapeze lines and an entire fleet of future olympic champions cannot be wrong. Steels density is around 7800kg/m3 whereas rope is just than water at 1000kg/m3 as it floats. Therefore although the rope is slightly larger than an equivalent wire then it can be seen it will be significantly less weight. I am not sure that you would be able to measure the difference in drag between a 2mm wire and 2.5mm rope trapeze line even in the wind tunnel. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 May 07 at 7:19am
Maybe I couldn't, but I'd bet a months wages that a competent engineer could. |