Club racing / event circuit balance
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1419
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 4:41am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Club racing / event circuit balance
Posted By: gordon
Subject: Club racing / event circuit balance
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 2:37pm
A group at my local club have written a Strategic Plan. This seems to assume that dinghy racing is mainly about club racing. Organising open events and preparing club sailors for travelling to open meetings and championships does not get a mention. This seems very strange and quite the contrary to my own experience.
Surely the whole point of owning a dinghy is that you can trail it round to events.
How do other dinghy sailors see this. Is club rcing still the core activity in dinghy racing, or merely a training/learning experience for the open meeting circuit?
Gordon DAVIES
------------- Gordon
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Replies:
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 2:47pm
I think it boils down to personal preference. Some people enjoy the buzz of the circuit so much they don't actually belong to a club, and still sail every week between April and November. It means a lot of miles with your boat on tow, and a like-minded or very understanding partner (or partner as a crew, or no partner at all, delete as necessary)
Club racing is more sedentary obviously but if you're part of a competitive fleet, it has its thrilling moments too. All competitors are (or should be) very familiar with the surroundings, the course, the tidal effects etc., so in theory, racing is done on skills alone
On the other hand, nothing prevents you from getting the best of both worlds: race at your club, get better and, every now and then, join an open meeting to have fun and get to know other guys!
Still, no opens at your club... it must be a little boring at times. Where do you sail, btw?
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: Shingle
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 2:53pm
Its now all about fleet size, if you have an open at the expense of Club racing you may only get 20 boats. Club racing would have generated more income over the bar etc, and these people are paid up members. The Club I'm a member of has followed a policy of less is more. If you are going to have opens then make them good ones. Opens are used as a means of generating revenue and the target is to lose no more than three weekends a year. As all the help is voluntary this is quite enough. But obviously there's a balance to maintaining a presence in the sailing community.
------------- Drink Feck girls!
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Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 3:00pm
I can't see myself ever having the desire to:
take my boat apart trail it miles and miles put it all back together again sail take it all apart again trail it back miles and miles put it back together again
and all this with the possibility that the wind may be crap and the whole thing will be a waste of time! I guess for some single handers this process is far easier but for a double handed boat it is a serious pain.
I want my sailing to be as hassle free as possible to maximise time on the water. It all depends on how serious you are about racing and if you sail in a small class with no local fleet.
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 3:01pm
I sail in Bray CO WICKLOW.
We have a very low turnout for club racing - about 4 boats on average! You could say we are starting from next to zero - except that we have a bunch of Ent sailors who travel a lot, and when we do a training session for Lasers we get 10 boats.
Our open meetings are planned to break even - revenue accrues from increased bar takings.
Gordon
------------- Gordon
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Posted By: Shingle
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 3:11pm
Ahh the Bar, the nucleus of every club.
I think people do travel less these days, whether it's demographics and those that used to, now have kids, or maybe it's petrol cost or not being able to fiddle you company mileage anymore!
------------- Drink Feck girls!
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 3:45pm
1) No Clubs, no open events.
2) I've never been at a club where the active travellers were a majority
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Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 4:50pm
travelleling round the country is fun. i sail on a lake that has the shiftest winds ever unless in the right direction, so going to places that are bigger is great fun. and it is the compertion aswell there is only 2 other 4k's at my club so going to an event will be good cos then we can race against people in the same boat. come and join the fun
------------- International 14 1503
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Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 5:39pm
Bough Beech is such a blustery place at times!

Mind you, you might have had more fun today 
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 5:40pm
I'd agree there has to be a balance, for both sailors and clubs. Most sailors enjoy both being a club member, and going off to see new places/see old friends. And clubs can get the message that they exist out into the sailing world by hosting events and getting the club name into Y&Y and class newsletters.
Most smaller classes are willing to hold events alongside club racing, assuming the water is big enough, as this way the club is more likely to hold the event, and the organizers don't have to worry that only 3 boats will turn up, or whatever. The club tends to have more of an on shore buzz, too, rather than the deserted feel that can be there when the only club members around are behind the signing in desk and outin the rescue boat.
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: carshalton fc
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Black no sugar
Bough Beech is such a blustery place at times!

Mind you, you might have had more fun today 
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yer you should of been down with the camera today bns. my hands are shreeded though. wasnt the best direction a very gusty f5 north eastily. so lots of t-bagging action.
------------- International 14 1503
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Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by gordon
Surely the whole point of owning a dinghy is that you can trail it round to events. |
Not for most people I know. The majority of dinghy sailing in the UK is club-level, not opens. When you've been grid-locked on the way to sailing at 07:30 on a Sunday morning, you realise that travelling to events is less fun than it used to be. Maybe Ireland is different.
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Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 9:16pm
I personally think that unless you have a very competitive large (at least 10 boats) fleet of your class open meetings are generally more fun. because there is usually better competition, chance to sail at other venues, chance to sail on different types of water (river/sea/estuary from your lake club for example), make friends from other clubs etc.
But club level racing will for most be the main time to sail, as it is usually close to home, and only takes 2 minutes to take the cover off and put the sails up.
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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by gordon
A group at my local club have written a Strategic Plan. This seems to assume that dinghy racing is mainly about club racing. Organising open events and preparing club sailors for travelling to open meetings and championships does not get a mention. This seems very strange and quite the contrary to my own experience.
Surely the whole point of owning a dinghy is that you can trail it round to events.
How do other dinghy sailors see this. Is club rcing still the core activity in dinghy racing, or merely a training/learning experience for the open meeting circuit?
Gordon DAVIES
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Gordon, please tell me they researched the needs of the members before they wrote the plan ...
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Posted By: Ian S
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 11:03am
You generally see a limited number of reactions by clubs to open meetings
1). They are a nuisance and interfere with club racing, the revenue they raise is minimal and if the club loses 2 members as a result the net financial gain is negated.
2). An open meeting supports the clubs fleets by offering them a chance to race against (potentially) the best in the world, it will help to encourage other club members to join that fleet, resulting in better class racing rather than handicap racing. Any revenue they raise is incidental as long as the open meeting breaks even, bar and galley takings are the added bonus
3). Open meetings are used to contribute to club finances, and losing a few days sailing each year results in a brand new rib every other season.
Observations of sailors seem to indicate they fall into one of the following categories:
1). I enjoy the prospect of competing at other clubs, meeting new people and having good class racing.
2). I don't really know the best way of packing my boat away and rigging it and view the whole prospect as a bit of a hassle and scary.
3). I used to do this in the past but now prefer to stay at home now and pot hunt
If your committees are generally made up of category 2 & 3 then your clubs reaction will probably be that opens are a nuisance.
At the end of the day opens rely on the clubs to host them, if classes ignore the small clubs they shouldn't be surprised when new blood stops appearing in thier class. Likewise clubs shouldn't be surprised if no one turns up to their events if they don't travel to other peoples.
Club racing should be the core activity at clubs, but not at the expense of the open meeting, you learn more at an open because you actually have to think about what you are doing due to unfamiliar surroundings and competitors.. and learning to sail better should be at the top of everyones agenda.
How many clubs are there where you can look at the members and then predict who will be in the top three at the end of each series?? Ask the people at your club who did the strategic plan if this is a prospect they want to sell to new members....
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Posted By: Matt Jackson
Date Posted: 30 Jan 06 at 2:04pm
If I had a fleet of 10 other boats to club race against I would probably only go to the Nats or inlands depending which is closer but having moved from a very active Contender club (Weston - 'the spiritual home of the Contender') to where it's just me, I find I'm going backward at each meeting I attend so travelling (for me) is essential for keeping me on (or near) the pace at home. I do about 3-4 TT's and a major UK event.
------------- Laser 203001, Harrier (H+) 36
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Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 8:09pm
i like opens more than club racing but the parents hate the driving. to be honest i dont realy like sitting in the car for ages. but at opens you meet new people and have lots of your own class to race against so i find it more fun. maybe this is because the feva is not difficult to dismantle/reasemble
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Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 9:18pm
There is also the fact that you learn a damn site faster at Opens than you do club racing and getting into the same old habits. Opens are much more fun in that sense.
------------- Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital
ingredient in beer.
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Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 9:27pm
I don't do many opens now because of other commitments,but I used to travel evey fortnight to an open and really enjoyed it.I miss the open circuit and hope to do a few this year,but I now sail in a boat where we get between 3 and 5 out most w/ends (my old one it used to be just us most w/ends) so the need to travel isn't so bad even if we miss the socials
------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)!
http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country
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Posted By: TonyL
Date Posted: 31 Jan 06 at 9:41pm
Depends on why the plan was being written. IMHO some clubs come up with a development plan because its a pre-req for getting funding from someone or other! Even if that isn't the case a development plan written by a club is probably going to major on ways to raise participation in club related activities.
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Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Matt Jackson
If I had a fleet of 10 other boats to club race against I would probably only go to the Nats or inlands depending which is closer but having moved from a very active Contender club (Weston - 'the spiritual home of the Contender') to where it's just me, I find I'm going backward at each meeting I attend so travelling (for me) is essential for keeping me on (or near) the pace at home. I do about 3-4 TT's and a major UK event. |
I can't say I blame you for not wanting to sail 'alone'. As I think I know where your Contender is I don't think you've sailed it since the start of November? Maybe that's another reason why you feel you're '"going backward" when you do come out to play. A solution for those classes that are scattered across the north like yours maybe for sailors from different clubs (but within say 50 miles radius) to coordinate where and when to sail at least once a month. This could either be at at handicap events or at a particular club on a semi-regular basis. That way you can get more fleet racing without travelling to the south coast every weekend for opens. We used to do that in Fireballs and had a couple of great years when several good weekends resulted whereas without the effort, we'd have all just sailed alone.
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Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 01 Feb 06 at 4:11pm
that sounds like this scotish skiff circuit thing but for all classes, a great idea.
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Posted By: Bumble
Date Posted: 02 Feb 06 at 12:38pm
I used to believe it was the responsibilty of 'good sailors' to support the local club sailing, as that is the way new starters get better. We all need to stop thin king about ourselves if we want more participation in our great (but only great after you have tried it) sport.
Its everyones dream to just do the opens and nationals, but what would happen to the sport? Its rhetorical cos we all know...... it would fall into the proverbial toilet of hobbies for wierdos.
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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 02 Feb 06 at 2:47pm
I have often remarked that racing sailing boats is an odd sport - in that participants spend more time competing than they do training, indeed many never train at all.
I can't help believing that this is at the heart of much of the disaffection with dinghy sailing. It can be little fun endlessly repeating the same scenarios (otherwise known as mistakes) to acheive the same result. I feel that clubs should be offering all sailors an opportunity to improve and get more fun out of their sailing.
For instance, downwind sailing with a spi only becomes fun when the basic techniques of hoisting, setting, gybing and recovering have been mastered. Most racing does not give a real opportunity to acquire and improve these techniques. A few, well organised training sessions would greatly enhance the enjoyment of downwind sailing... and regular refresher sessions.
Which is why I feel that clubs should be doing more than just starting endless races. Setting up and running a "club team" to sail at open events - with jioint trailing sessions, shared travelling even the use of a club RIB... Getting into team racing (the best way to keep the 18-25s in the sport), and many more ideas.
All this is based on things that I have done - but not in the UK or Ireland
------------- Gordon
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Posted By: Living in a box
Date Posted: 02 Feb 06 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by gordon
Which is why I feel that clubs should be doing more than just starting endless races. |
It's difficult to say where the responsibility of the club starts and ends. Ultimately it's down to the members to organise themselves, isn't it? I know that I have stopped racing twice on a Sunday, in favour of spending the mornings focusing on training, and racing in the afternoons...
I started doing this because I realised that I just wasn't getting the sort of sailing I needed by club racing all the time... I don't blame the club for that at all!
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