Historical Handicap for Phantom
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14027
Printed Date: 07 Aug 25 at 3:46am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Historical Handicap for Phantom
Posted By: Wetabix
Subject: Historical Handicap for Phantom
Date Posted: 09 Jul 23 at 10:48am
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Does anyone know where I can find a handicap list for 1997 or thereabouts or can anyone remember what a Phanrom had in those days? George Morris Phantom 903 Weta 117
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Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Jul 23 at 11:23am
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1052.
That would be wooden hull and tin mast. |
Posted By: Wetabix
Date Posted: 09 Jul 23 at 1:24pm
| Actually, back then I had an early grp boat , 947, which was rather heavy by modern standards and replaced it with 1036 and then 1260. I now have a wooden one, 903, with a carbon rig by an unknown mast maker - possibly Claridge. My recollection (which may be false) is that in those days I had a handicap of about 117 which might explain why in those days I did quite well but today I do less well, even with the wooden boat PN of 1047 as per the class website. There may be other reasons of course, like being 80 and having lost four stone, but I would be interested to know. |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 09 Jul 23 at 4:29pm
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Carbon spars make a big difference. With hindsight I believe that carbon spars and foam sandwich hulls should have been handicapped separately as was done with terylene sails back in the day.
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Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 7:15am
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back in the day George, a Finn was 113 iirc and now its 1060ish and a Phantom was about 1051 so would be about 112 in old money at a guess ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |
Posted By: Wetabix
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 7:27am
| Thanks v much - glad to see that you're still alive after all these years! Do you still have a Phantom? That tells me all I need to know including giving me a guide to what the conversion factor between the three digit and four digit system is, which I had thought was a simple times ten but it seems I am wrong there. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 10:11am
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They didn't just add a digit when they went from base 100 to base 1000 they also added around 7% so actually multiplied by around 10.7. This has happened twice as boats have been getting faster, granularity is reduced as numbers get lower so a percentage was added so that (approximately) half the numbers fall below 1000 (previously 100) and half above. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 6:41pm
| Conversion factors - I believe that strictly speaking there wasn't a conversion factor in 1996, the numbers were recalculated. In practice the actual ratio varied between 9.32 and 9.91, and 9.47 is a good approximation. In 1977 it was 1.2. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 7:50pm
I bow you your greater knowledge  FWIW the numbers change every year and I'm sure they could allow them to creep up without needing to apply a conversion factor as such. When I was first involved in dinghy racing in around 1965 I remember the Firefly being sometimes referred to as the 'scratch boat' with a PN of 100 but I've learned since that the Firefly PN was not 100 for long (or maybe at all  ). The idea of maintaining a single class as the benchmark sounds good but all classes get faster over time, even the ubiquitous L@ser... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Wetabix
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 7:53pm
| So what I want to know is how much faster than a Laser did I have to go to save my time then, and how much faster would I have to go today? |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 7:56pm
Easy-peasy, just use contemporary PN's and do the sums  ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: maxibuddah
Date Posted: 10 Jul 23 at 8:49pm
Not anymore, got a K1 now after going through a D-One, Finn, Phantom again & OK. But still sailing. Glad to see you are still at it ------------- Everything I say is my opinion, honest |