Room for an obstruction
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Racing Rules
Forum Discription: Discuss the rules and your interpretations here
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14025
Printed Date: 06 Aug 25 at 8:49pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Room for an obstruction
Posted By: Old bloke
Subject: Room for an obstruction
Date Posted: 12 Jun 23 at 2:07pm
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Can a boat, running on port ,request room for an obstruction from a boat on starboard without incurring a penalty?
The obstruction was a moored yacht, near enough and large enough to qualify as an obstruction. |
Replies:
Posted By: laser193713
Date Posted: 12 Jun 23 at 3:44pm
| I can't really picture a situation where this would be an issue, unless both are dead down wind. In which case, simply gybe on to starboard and then call for room. Assuming that you would need to gybe on to starboard in order to avoid said yacht.... |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 12 Jun 23 at 4:45pm
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Yes and no. The Right of Way boat gets to choose which side of the obstruction she will go - 19.2(a), but if there's an overlapped boat that will be between her and the obstruction she must give it room to pass the obstruction on that side too - 19.2(b). You can't force a give way boat to go the opposite side of the obstruction from you.
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Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 14 Jun 23 at 5:41pm
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If I were clever I would draw a picture.
Boat A is running on starboard with the tide ,aiming to leave a moored cruiser on his right hand side.(to complicate he has boats to leeward so can't bear away further . Boat B comes across on port gybe and requests room to pass between A and the moored Boat. A gave room to avoid a collision but didn't protest. Ps, nothing to do with me, I was just a spectator. I assume the port Boat B is in the wrong but ,to me, the room at an obstruction rule wasn't clear |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 1:43pm
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Was B on the same leg of the course as A? What point of sailing was B on, what was his course relative to A? Describing B as being on 'port gybe' as opposed to 'port tack' suggests he is not beating to windward but beyond that all bets are off (though I would assume he was sailing lower than a beam reach). ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 2:55pm
| Same leg of the course,both running almost parallel but converging |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 5:22pm
| What constitutes a substantial course change? 2 boats going near dead downwind and avoiding the cruiser (i'm assuming is wind bound) wouldn't require much change in course to avoid. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 5:34pm
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Seems simple enough, if they are overlapped he's entitled to room so A has to give it.
Just to expand a little further though, if the cruiser was lying head to wind they would be approaching the bow so, unless a very big boat if the dinghies were more than a boat length or two apart it would be hard to argue it actually was an obstruction by the definition (is this what you are getting at CR?). If it's lying across the wind due to an opposing tide then it's a different matter though? That diagram you hinted at would be a huge help
 ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 5:51pm
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Yeah exactly. It looks like Port would be entitled to the room at the obstruction as long as the overlap was established with enough time for Starboard and the boats to leeward of Starboard to adjust accordingly to allow the room and the course change for Port to be substantial. I have a feeling gybing for the moored boat would count as substantial. But would having to do that for a large cylinder buoy (or 2) be the same? If they were both on Starboard and the windward boat only had to head up a little more to windward (eg. a boat length) be substantial?
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 7:20pm
Something like this?
Yes, starboard must give room for port to pass the obstruction, but the second they clear the obstruction port needs to get the hell out of it without clouting starboard with her boom if she gybes. I wouldn't like to be port. Don't forget an obstruction is an obstruction, be it 5 feet or 5 miles away. The actual track of the boats is irrelevant to whether its an obstruction or not. It's just that if it's 5 miles away there aren't any problems passing it! I'm a bit unsure of what room port is entitled to. She is entitled to enough room to comply with all her obligations under part 2 rules. That includes, presumably, room to gybe if she must gybe to keep clear of Stbd. However as soon as they are past the obstruction AFAICS port has no entitlement to room, but she has to keep clear. |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 15 Jun 23 at 8:21pm
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Pretty much it, but my hypothetical thinking was that their courses were a little more parallel so it felt a little less of a deviation It looks pretty obvious that P has to make a substantial change to avoid the obstruction on your diagram
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Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 16 Jun 23 at 8:02am
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Thank you Jim, that's exactly it. We have a lot of these obstructions, and a 45'yacht certainly does require a significant alteration of course, but I had never come across this scenario before.
Generally the port gybe boat would have realised he was getting into a difficult situation and avoided it. I think he was asleep rather than hatching a cunning plan. Ps, how did you do the drawing? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 16 Jun 23 at 11:32am
| I did the drawing from a blank page in a vector drawing package (Corel Draw). |
Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 16 Jun 23 at 2:07pm
| Ah I see, thank you. I was trying to find a tool in the forum. |
Posted By: Brass
Date Posted: 17 Jun 23 at 12:04am
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Diagramming Tools
Boat Scenario http://boats.sourceforge.net/pages/Download Free 1mB program for Windows, Linux etc Tactical Sailing Solutions (TSS) http://tss.peronneau.net/Original RRS diagramming software. Not free. Similar to Boat Scenario, but a little more sophisticated. Protestdraw http://pathealy.com/cpctools/protestdraw/default.html A very simple free MS Word document with a comprehensive library of boat and course images. |