A sailing school is selling a bunch of Picos cheaply. I've only sailed one once and it wasn't too bad. The parts issue is similar, but the boats are decades newer and they have the advantage of being able to be rigged as a doublehander.

Without wanting to start a class war, what do people here think about the comparitive merit of the two classes for use as training boats for kids?  What's the Pico's weight range?  Are there any issues to look for? It seems to be out of production - is that so?

We are also trying to get Optis going as a junior class. As we are on an inland dam in a country area and the fleet will always be small, we will then probably get the kids into Laser 4.7s; they seem to really like the Laser and in particular the fact that they can keep up with the adult fleet. There are no Picos racing in the country so like the Topper the Picos will be orphans but the same applies to any similar boat in that bracket.

Any opinions welcome.

Couple of thoughts for you...

1) Toppers are polypropylene hull & decks. It's difficult to weld any hull damage - however it's a light weight hull.

2) Picos are significantly heavier.

3) Parts for Picos (UK) are expensive - there probably isn't much saving to be made in parts.

4)While a pico can be rigged  to double handed, it's cramped for teenagers - the jib doesn't haven't any tension in the luff (simple hook into the unstayed mast) so it doesn't really help performance.

5) You can get a Topper to plane - I've had a Pico out in 30+ knots and it just carves a trough in the water!

Colin

For adults you need Picos - but does a Pico offer anything more than 4.7 apart from economy.

Another thing to check is the availability of spares for the Pico’s as people on forums/fb pages have complained of the problem of getting spares both in the UK and the USA. 

I would think the parts issue is mostly a matter of 'make and mend'?

We're talking learner boats and class rules are well out the window?

Toppers are still a pretty serious class for some people, couple of clubs I know have good racing for juniors, it seemed like a nice boat to sail when I borrowed one in about 1980 and the kids still like them.

Pico did great service in the beach holiday industry for some years.

Not a bad boat as such, but a less 'focused singlehander' concept.

A mate had one in Greece, sun wasn't kind to it in the long run.

When these things come your way at low enough cost you can write them off quickly, crack on.

I guess the high turnover sailing schools have moved on, I don't know what to? Feva?

Old Toppers are a sure bet Picos are a gamble - Re construction yes Toppers are polypropylene, but it’s an injection moulding and can accurately and repeatedly put strength where it’s needed. Picos are rotomoulded, some polyethylene is but inside a big heated hollow mould which is then rotated in all sorts of directions and the PE re-acts to create an aero bar with skin (very much simplified description) but it’s a lot less controllable so they end up heavy to ensure it’s strong enough. Both materials are equally hard to repair but you’re much less likely to need to do so with a Topper. 

We had a thread recently suggested he’s not been paying Pico designer Jo Richards his design royalties, as happened with the Laser and Bruce Kirby.

Whilst this is peripheral in some ways, it does not bode well for the reliability of replacement Pico parts, so is yet another reason to stick with the toppers

We do have an odd hole down here in that we lack a class between the Opti and similar prams, and the Laser 4.7. If we keep the Toppers going they'll fill that hole.

Cheers