Mainsail Centre Sheeting
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1392
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 4:39am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Mainsail Centre Sheeting
Posted By: woody
Subject: Mainsail Centre Sheeting
Date Posted: 18 Jan 06 at 10:58pm
| Is centre sheeting on those classes that originally were designed with aft sheeting, a good and viable development for the class, or is it just a trend that has been developed from other classes that already have centre sheeting. By centre sheeting I mean that the mainsheet still runs to the end of the boom and then is roved back along the boom to a central position so their is little or no advantage that I can see. Please enlighten me. |
Replies:
Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 12:01am
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Hi woody I don't know what class you're referring to, but there's been a lot of discussion here and on other fora about centre-main sheeting for Toppers. Here are the links to a couple of threads from other places http://www.gbrtopper.co.uk/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=2&TopicID=172&PagePosition=2 - http://www.gbrtopper.co.uk/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?F orumID=2&TopicID=172&PagePosition=2 http://dinghyforum.gamalan.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=144 - http://dinghyforum.gamalan.net/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=144
------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC 
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, i.e. the Topper Discussion Forum and the Dinghy Sailing forum. They both come to roughly the same conclusion, but I leave you the pleasure to find out yourself! Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 5:27am
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Personally I find centre sheeting infinitely more comfortable than aft sheeting and it is worth converting for that alone. It makes it much easier to tack and gybe facing forwards too.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 5:40am
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You've got to be amused at the way folk want to ignore the only hard data on the subject bacause it disagrees their preconceptions. Tells you a lot about human nature.
When I did the trial analysis I was surprised how it came out - I was expecting there to be no discernable difference. It makes me want to consider transom sheeting on my own boats, and if I were sailing a confined water roll tacking boat that would be the way I would go. Ask a National 12 sailor. Obviously for a fuller evaluation you need a lot more data, but it tells you a lot about how much hassle this sort of thing is to do that this is, I believe, the only trial of this kind that has ever been done. You would expect that the more tacking there is in proportion then the greater the superiority of aft main would be, but as we've already seen expectations can be quite wrong. However the most important thing to learn from this study is how tiny boat speed differences are compared to the differences between the performance of each sailor in individual races. Another lesson people don't want to learn! |
Posted By: Blobby
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 7:31am
ConclusionEvaluation of the results obtained at the test event indicate that there may be a tiny performance difference between Toppers equipped with transom mainsheets and with the experimental centre mainsheet system, and that the centre mainsheet system was fractionally slower. The difference noted was approximately 20 seconds per hour, but there it seems possible that this was mainly due to the sailors being less familiar with the centre mainsheet system in use on a Topper. The difference noted was only marginally statistically significant and was tiny compared to the actual variation in finishing times in each race, which was about 2 minutes 40 seconds per hour This is your conclusion I believe - and certainly the comments on the other fora say Centre main is slower in light winds as you can't get the weight forward. Bear in mind though that this is talking about a centre-main system where the sheet is run off the boom down to a ratchet on the deck. Centre-main off the boom would seem to achieve the best of both worlds...more comfort and not in the way of moving forward. Certainly in my 29er I can tack "aft mainsheet style" when sitting on the mast bridge in the light and "centre-main style" in a breeze. But I agree completely that people ignore fact in favour of pre-conceptions. |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 8:23am
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Jim, I've had a look at your report and your statistics. As you say, there is a 38% probability that the means of the centre and transom statistics are identical. Unfortunately, this is not a statistically significant result. It is common to look for significance at the 95% or 99% levels to demonstrate that two populations have different means. I'd also have a problem with the design of the experiment. It's not really very surprising that a group of sailors did better with the system they are familiar with, versus an experimental one. To demonstrate that one system was intrinsically faster than the other, you would need groups of sailors equally practiced with both. Finally, there is the question of causality. Why should one system be faster than the other?
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Posted By: Simon Lovesey
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 9:51am
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The Mirror Class are investigating the introduction of an optional Centre Main and would welcome any feedback from other classes http://www.ukmirrorsailing.com/cgi-bin/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4153 - http://www.ukmirrorsailing.com/cgi-bin/forums/topic.asp?TOPI C_ID=4153
I fully agree with Jim's comments, we have spent the last two years testing new Bermuda rigs with the aim of modernising the Mirror, although not 100% scientific we have not seen any obvious performance differential, but people still get very hung up that there may be performance advantages of certain rigs, refusing to believe that the most performance differences come from the actual sailors. As many previous threads have discussed extensively one design classes need to evolve, this may or may not lead to performance gains, but the benefit of keeping a class popular will usually outweigh any downsides of change. Simon |
Posted By: m_liddell
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 10:59am
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Centre mainsheet sheeting is now almost universal on all modern boats for a number of reasons: You can sheet in much faster by using your tiller hand and sheet hand to sheet in. this makes a massive difference at the leeward mark where boats like the enterprise were a pain. You can see where you are going while tacking and gybing! It is much easier to hike using the 'dagger grip' used on the tiller extension sailing centre main boats *note some of these points are valid only for non-twin wire boats. As a side note, I've found beginners find aft mainsheet easier to learn initially. |
Posted By: Bogg Inne
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 12:23pm
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my kiddlys sailed Toppers through transition from aft to centre sheetin , there was a marked difference in their performance and ability to sail the boat in strong winds and overall they felt much happier in the setup ,imho a good move. Biggest difference was for my youngest and smallest @ <8 St became competitive too in stronger winds. ------------- If it ain't broke - break it |
Posted By: woody
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 6:58pm
| I can'nt see that it helps you to hike harder or enables you to sheet in quicker as on aft sheeting you can use your thumb to grip the sheet and grab much more sheet in one movement as opposed to lots of small grabs. While your sheeting in using this method it also makes it difficult to steer at the same time where on aft sheeting you can do both at the same time. As regards the possible development of the Mirror to accommodate centre sheeting, this is exactly what I'm on about. Is this really neccasary or just a trend that is driven by so called modern standards. Are we just sheep following the crowd?. |
Posted By: aardvark_issues
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 7:46pm
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N12's are really good at roll tacking - the majority run aft sheeting.
A few have experimented with transom main run along the boom and
sheeted directly and some have experimented with purely central
sheeting. The ones with boom sheeting are noticeably slower tacking as the technique just isn't as smooth and you end up further back in the boat digging the transom in. I'm sure in a longer boat like and Albacore or Merlin it isnt so bad but the same effect will probably be noticed. On the other hand, going from a centre sheeting Moth to a transom main sheeted from the boom, my tacking is much better now for the same reason - I can stay further forwards. As for the topper, presumably not getting enough leech tension through the boom sheeting system - half the purchase wont be pulling down directly on the end of the boom. |
Posted By: Olly4088
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 7:53pm
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I tried it in my brief spell in ents. I just dont feel comfortable any more with aft sheeting. My friend has just bought a national that he is converting to centre main aft/boom ratchet block. But I have to slightly agree. I heard somewhere that the nationals are mainly aft sheeting purely from a tacking perspective as in if they are centre main you have your weight to far back when you tack therefore slowing the boat down bla bal bla ------------- Phantom 1298 |
Posted By: Rob.e
Date Posted: 19 Jan 06 at 8:31pm
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The N12 is a fairly short boat, so these considerations are more relevant than in say a Dutchman or an Osprey. I do wonder about the Europe or RS300, where transom drag is an issue. I often struggled to keep the 300 moving through a tack, where my old China Doll (N12) was no problem. One of my clubmates built a 12 with centre sheeting, but converted back after a season; if you wanted to beat him, you just had to get into a tacking duel! As far as the Laser style arrangement, I think the RS800 trialled it, and found significantly reduced sheet loads, making it easier for women and smaller or younger people,& I think they allowed it as an option. I'm told some Europeans think we're strange, with our transom sheeted boats! ------------- |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 7:33am
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And so are Merlin Rockets, which all use centre sheeting. More to do with the hull shape in both cases, I think.
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Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 4:06pm
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For a Topper CM ceraintly works better, especally in strong winds. Quicker to sheet in, can actaully hike and work the waves properly, face forward when tacking/gybing etc. ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 4:17pm
Actually, the hull shape of the 12 & the Merlin are pretty poor for roll tacking as they tend to scoop water over the side as they are so wide. Ents and Fireflies are the kings of the roll tackers ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 5:17pm
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Well it needs fine judgement on exactly how far you can heel, but the width gives you lovely leverage for a good vigourous roll. Believe me, you can propel a Merlin very nicely up the beat by roll-tacking. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 5:46pm
Agreed ... but round boats roll better ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: HannahJ
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 6:53pm
here here! ever tried roll tacking a topper???!!!
------------- MIRROR 64799 "Dolphin" The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist hopes it will change; the realist adjusts the sail |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 8:23pm
But if you look at the bit of a Merlin or N12 hull that is in the water, it is quite round. Remember they are wide at deck level but much narrower at the waterline. |
Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 9:58pm
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Yeah, it's pretty easy really ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 10:57pm
True, but you can heel an Ent to perhaps 60 degrees before you scoop any water but you could never do that in a 12 or MR. Being able to roll through a large angle means you can do a more effective (illegal) roll tack. ------------- |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 20 Jan 06 at 11:11pm
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Well something makes them so demon quick in light wind tacking
sessions... if Its not hull shape and not mainsheet settup, what is it?
------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 21 Jan 06 at 5:54am
I don't think I'd regard it as the prime chractareistic of a good roll tacking boat. Both my last Cherub and my IC can readily be heeled to very great angles, but neither is precisely a demon roll tacker. Indeed I'd had the Cherub 14 years before we really got roll tacking to work at all, whereas earlier shapes, especially 60s ones, roll tacked just fine thankyou. I'd regard rocker, reasonable rise of floor and having the buoyancy reasonably near the middle of the boat as being attributes. It seems to me to be all about how the board goes through the water and the water flows round the hull a bit. Flat wedge shaped boats tend just to go splat/splat than gain much propulsion, and boats that are reluctant to tack anyway aren't going to be a good bet, because you lose too much forving them through the tack anyway. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Jan 06 at 9:34am
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As with everything in this sport it is complexed. A roll tack works because you force the rig through the air by rocking the boat. Of course the way the hull goes through the water matters but if you can't force the rig through the air with a roll then the other issues are irrelevant ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 21 Jan 06 at 1:19pm
I hesitate to get involved in this but I was in Winders the other day and was suprised at just how flat the underwater section of their Merlin is. It still rolls well though - partly because although flat its so narrow that there's little resistance to rolling it. The Merlin rig is near perfect for rolling as well - its light weight mean body movements easily initiate and finish the manouvre whilst the large roach seems to open as air accelerates off it and then close to maintain flow. The point that all boats are different and require different techniques is most valid. Compare for instance an RS200 and a Fireball, to look at them you'd think that the RS with its roundish sections would be a dream to roll tack but the Fireball with its flat panels wouldn't be. In fact, the RS takes a lot of technique to roll well - as it easily scoops water, and its fully battened main has to be 'popped' at the right moment for the roll to be effective. The Fireball however rolls really well, doesn't readily scoop water (wide side tanks help here) and the main flops over well with little problem popping the top batten. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Jan 06 at 3:34pm
The 200 is way easier to roll tack than the Fireball ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 12:59am
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[/QUOTE] The 200 is way easier to roll tack than the Fireball ... Rick [/QUOTE] Rick - I generally agree with most of what you say but then you usually don't just make statements with no reasoning! I didn't say RS200s didn't roll well, but I still say they require a quite refined technique whereas in comparison, the Fireball doesn't. |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 10:47am
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The 200 is way easier to roll tack than the Fireball ... Rick
That statement was based on experience, no analysis just quite a bit of time in both classes. Rick ------------- |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 11:53am
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I think you are correct in saying it is the narrow waterline that is key. In terms of the section, most designs are rounder towards the bow but flatter towards the stern for early planing.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 3:57pm
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It would be an intersting exercise to mark boats out of 10 for "roll tackiness" and then look for common factors. Start with this list of two handers with my markd
Enterprise 10 N12 10 & nbsp; RS200 9 RS400 8 Merlin 8 Fireball 7 Laser 4k 4 420 7 505 6 29ER 4 Modern Cherub 1 49er 1 then when enough folk have scored the boats we can look for commom factors. If you don't have a mrk or one boat leave it, I'll work out an average... |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 5:30pm
Id agree in principle but im bored so just to be dificult i'll bring up the Big Issue design  ------------- |
Posted By: allanorton
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 6:09pm
| Soft/no chines, un-cluttered cockpit & lots of freeboard seem to make for good roll tacking. |
Posted By: Calum_Reid
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 6:20pm
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aaahhh damn Short 'n' Snappy is gona be crap to roll tack then! Eh Ben ------------- 
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Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 6:29pm
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Wide stern, narrow nose seem to be the best designs for roll tacking. N12, Merlin Rocket, RS200/400 .
------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 6:35pm
B  cks to that... best hope for wind then!------------- |
Posted By: les5269
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 7:42pm
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Laser 5000 seems to work ok ish ------------- 49er 531 & 5000 5025 and a mirror(now gone to mirror heaven)! http://www.grafham.org/" rel="nofollow - Grafham water Sailing Club The greatest inland sailing in the country |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 7:56pm
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Moths are great for roll tacking in light winds... My average tack can involve anywhere up to about 400 degrees of roll, sometimes more if im really working at it and the water is deep enough ------------- |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 8:10pm
400 degrees, so u capsize then eh ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 06 at 8:25pm
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Capsizing is for muppets, what I do is an art form... I call it 'Silent Dance On Green Hull' My place at RADA is already booked... ------------- |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 10:24am
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Enterprise 10 ------------- |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 12:25pm
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You can roll tack a Laser quite well...the trick is to get the (new) leeward gunwhale under water and have the foils just in enough to keep them gripping. The pull the boat upright, sheet in and point up.... Works wonders in light winds! Phantoms are pretty good too (see the pic inside the cover of the Y&Y tacing classes guide...that was the exit of a roll tack (I know the sailor, he has been our club champ for the last 12 years). Not sure on the Blaze yet (no wind yesterday....didn't get to take it out) but I am told do not dip the racks! Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 1:41pm
I also have some I don't want to get into a pointless RS vs FB tacking discussion here - and I wasn't saying that the FB rolls better than the 200. The FB probably wasn't the best example to use but like you Rick, its one I'm familiar with. I did mean to say that just because a boat looks like it will be a good roll tacker (roundish sections, reasonable rise of floor, decent rocker etc) doesn't necessarily mean that it will be that much better than one that looks like it will be poor (Flat panels low rise of floor etc i.e. FB). There are other factors to consider. What other factors? Well in my opinion any boat with a fully battened main would lose at least two 'points' in JimCs rating system. The main is acting as a brake on the new tack until it's 'popped' - it doesn't always pop easily, when it pops, any flow is lost, and to make it pop easier, kicker tends to be applied - which is not fast for very light conditions. Put another way, do we think an Ent or Firefly would roll tack as well with a fully battened main? The RS200 is also prone to scooping water - making the angle of roll more critical than in many classes. The RS requires precise technique because its awkward to get the tiller extension through the gap between mainsheet and boom. So it sometimes ends up the wrong side of the mainsheet during the roll. To counter this, many people push the tiller hard over - losing speed and over rotating the turn thus losing ground to windward. None of the above apply to our agreed roll tacking stars - like the Ent. |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 1:56pm
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Enterprise 10 RS200 8 N12 modern 7 420 6 505 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 2:27pm
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The British Moth, as the best river singlehander, has to rank up with the Firefly and Ent for roll tackiness, with the short waterline and massivly tall rig, The Comet is also pretty good, but the rig doesn't generate quite enough power as you pull it upright to bring the boat "up to speed" again. We never come out of tacks faster than we go in, of course, do we folks...?! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Olly4088
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 2:38pm
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Anouther boat that is a good roll tacker is an Albacore as its long and thin and also has a rounded hull aswell. ------------- Phantom 1298 |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 3:34pm
| I'd guess a Lark tacks pretty well? |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 5:15pm
I guess it's down to how each person adapts to the boat then as in my experience the 200 was much easier ... Rick ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 6:15pm
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I can roll tack a feva. they have low freeboard, deep foils, average height rig, and a full length top batten that wont pop in light airs even with kiker on btw it also has centre main that is laser style which is quite easy to sheet in up to f5. |
Posted By: Luke4485
Date Posted: 23 Jan 06 at 7:09pm
u can roll the 4k quite abit more than the 29er this was proved when we went to the bloddy mary and a 29er tryed roll gybeing and ended up swimming i would of said 29er 2-3 4tonner 5-6 ------------- laser 4000 4485 |
Posted By: Bruce Starbuck
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 10:04am
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GP14's are great to roll tack, yet they are heavy, have hard chines and wide, flat bottom sections and centre main sheeting (mostly). Not quite as good as Ents though. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 10:40am
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Ents are amazing to watch in the light stuff when they roll tack. It seems if they try it in anything over a light breeze it turns in to a roll over tack though....then they do the titanic impression....... We have a guy in a British Moth at our club, he always seems to struggle on the roll tacking, but given the size of the rig he just ghosts along nicely in the light stuff! Anything more than a F2 and he is toast though (he is quick in the fleet, has been Nat champ at least once and runner up several times). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 12:00pm
Plenty of freeboard ... ------------- |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 1:41pm
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Seems folk aren't interested in posting the numbers, never mind save me some work.
The factors I would look at for "roll tackiness" would probably include waterplane area distribution (ie whether the boat is fatter in the middle than at the transom) rise of floor both in the midle and at the transom, how vertical the topsides are, rocker amount and distribution and so on. for instance if you compare a Merlin with a modern Cherub, both are equally flat floored in the centre but the Merlin has more rocker, much less vertical topsides - thus more buoyancy further out when the boat is heeled, more rise of floor further out and the waterplane much more towards the middle of the boat. Some of those differences will be related to what's different in "roll tackiness" between them, some not... Here's a very crude and stylised representtion of how differently the two sorts of shape float when heeled. 
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Posted By: Black no sugar
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 5:06pm
Oh yeah... That applies to Contenders as well! I'm in dire need of any good, average or even shoddy tips, I'll try anything  ------------- http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/index.html - Lancing SC
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Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 6:37pm
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take a hacksaw to your tiller extension.lol
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Posted By: Prince Buster
Date Posted: 24 Jan 06 at 6:51pm
http://www.superspars.com/RS600.html Its the inland champion talking about the way he tacks/gybes. Not sure how much help it would be but im kind of doing my homework on them cos im getting mine next week   .------------- international moth - "what what?" |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 12:44am
| I've little experience of the Contender but I remember that you have to go along way aft to tack the thing and the bum drags and the boat stops. I'd rate it close to zero on the roll tacking scale. |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 12:47am
| I can't say the 4000 is much good either. Again you can't keep the weight forward enough and theres not much room for a roll with the racks dipping in the water and then there's those battens. Quite honestly the best place is the bar if the wind is that light. |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 25 Jan 06 at 1:29am
Hey - why are you picking on me And thanks Redback for agreeing that full battens are a factor. |
. I gave the 4k a point more than the 29er -unlike Jim and RickPosted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 6:31pm
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To come back to the topic of centre sheeting, I started out in Fireflies and yes, they are good to roll-tack and the aft sheeting suits that. But I then went on to a centre-main with a centre bridle (like the 2 & 4000 and the 800) and found that much easier to use in general and especially when gybing in a blow - you can face forwards and just grab the whole bunch of mainsheet to pull the mainsail across. The bridle gets in the way, however, when you want to get the weight forward in lighter winds. The Laser-1-style sheeting, with a centre final take-off block and the purchases and bridle aft, makes it much easier to move fore and aft, but can get in the way if you use a long tiller extension, e.g. for single-handing from the wire, where a full centre-main is preferable. Recently I’ve been sailing with an aft bridle and taking the main off the boom, 29’er style, which seems to work fine but is very cold this weather as the blood drains out of your raised hands! So each of the alternatives has pros and cons, and in my view which you’d best use depends on the boat, the venue, the strength of the wind and whether you’re sailing one or two up. For that reason it makes sense for a class to allow all options so that sailors can chop and change at will. The 3000 class voted last year to allow all the options and the new VanderCraft 3000 will be available with any or all according to customer wishes. My inclination would be to go 29’er style in summer and Laser 1 style with deck-mounted ratchet block and side-jammers in winter, switching to a centre bridle and centre-jammer for sailing the boat on my own from the wire - always a popular option with 3000 sailors. The switch-over can be done very quickly |
Posted By: Roland Butter
Date Posted: 26 Jan 06 at 9:34pm
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I sailed toppers during the centre-main transition and it makes a huge difference! You can actually play the mainsheet effectively without your hiking and body movements for waves being affected by the mainsheet pulling you back in the boat. I disagree with changing for conditions/venues cos you may as well get used to one and stick with it. If your always swapping then you won't get chance to be fully efficient with one or the other, so you will come out worse off. If light winds mean you need to put your body in an uncomfortable position then so what? deal with it. Just go for the one that has the most advantages and weigh up how important those advantages are. (Centre-main in every class! ------------- Rob 29er GBR 2 - Youth World Champ www.holt.eu www.pinbax.com www.tacktick.com |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 8:58am
A few years back (when I only weight 11 stone) I sailed our clubs Topper open in a borrowed boat with a borrowed sail. The wind was light to non existance but I still managed to post a 9th out or 34 despite being by far the heaviest (I reckon by a good 3 or 4 stone) and against a fair few squad sailors. They were suprised, as was I. What was my secret? I got the boat moving on every leg and then just went with the wind. They were far too busy roll tack, shifting round to get comfy etc... to feel the puffs as they came across, I was 4th at the windward mark but lost out offwind. Just goes to show that you can sail a boat despite being seriously overweight as long as you can work out what you need to do (and a bit of luck always helps). This was on aft main, I find aft main much harder to use than centre main (but I have always raced centre main). Paul ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 4:16pm
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11 stone is only about 0.5 stone under the top of the optimum weight for the topper. But in light winds the light guys you sailed against will always be faster in a straight line. ------------- |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 4:44pm
I agree they should have all been faster than me but they all seemed too worried about their comfort to sail fast. I was practically curled up in a ball up near the mast...they were all looking bemused as I ghosted past them up wind! ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Roland Butter
Date Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 5:17pm
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Harry, 11 stone is well over optimum weight range! 65k is pushing it for a topper and 11 stone is just under 70 kg so jeffers did very well for his size and when you take into account using aft sheeting. ------------- Rob 29er GBR 2 - Youth World Champ www.holt.eu www.pinbax.com www.tacktick.com |
Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 27 Jan 06 at 5:43pm
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Suppose so, but you can still be competitive in stronger winds with more than 65kg- I'm though you know my size I am and I am able to get the same results (albeit nothing special) in a force 1 and a force 5. I agree Jeffers sailed well, especially considering the wind strength. Not going to argue with a national champ ------------- |
Posted By: mike ellis
Date Posted: 29 Jan 06 at 9:16pm
last weekend at the feva squad training it was light and me (70kg) and my crew (54Kg) are way too heavy for a feva but if we just sat on the bow practicaly and very still it went upwind a dream.
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