first single hander
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13810
Printed Date: 04 Aug 25 at 12:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: first single hander
Posted By: wolfram
Subject: first single hander
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 1:11pm
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I am returning to sailing after 14 years. I've basically forgotten most of what I had learnt! 55 years young, 95kg and 6 foot 1inch tall. I've read most of the 'which boat' threads, so have a shortlist of single-handers: Laser (with rooster 8.1 rig) Phantom RS300 Solution Hadron H2 Supernova Aero 9 Devoti D Zero I will be sailing inland on a small puddle where the wind dies in the evening. I want to join in the evening racing after getting myself up to speed. There are several lasers( sailed by shorter and smaller helms), a byte C2, a streaker, a europe, a miracle, a gp14 and an rs200 who regularly sail in the evening. So, which of the typical recommendations for my weight, height, age, and experience would be best inland on a small puddle in light airs? ------------- Wolfram |
Replies:
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 1:55pm
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Laser and Aero 9 probably the simplest of these, talking rigging. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 2:16pm
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I have experience (in the dim and distant past) of lots of rig controls on a national 12 so not that daunted by lots of string. ------------- Wolfram |
Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 2:54pm
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Jeremy Clarkson once wrote that the answer to almost every "what car should I buy?". Was:- buy a Golf.
The boring sensible answer to "what singlehandedly should I buy?". Is buy a laser. You'll be sailing against other people, having competion, making friends and if you don't like it, you can easily sell it. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 2:59pm
No question, get a *Phantom and trash the lot of them over the water, then joke as they trash you back on handicap, but you'll be out front, looking down the boom at them, you can do things like ask them why they can't keep up, oh and don't even hike, they love that, if you're just sat there. Take a flask, pour some coffee.. they like that even more, just don't offer them any.. Unless they can keep up of course.. 
*A recentish Epoxy Sandwich version built by say Vandercraft, or similar, they're dead easy to sail and at 95 kg I'd say you're heavy enough in the conditions you speak of. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 3:14pm
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Some of those singlehanders you list are faster than anything you will be racing against? So you will have to be miles ahead and 'out of touch' with the fleet to be competitive? You might learn more racing something about the same speed as the other boats? A Laser with other Lasers to learn from is rarely a big mistake. But look at the people not just the boats. Who are the kind of people you relate to? If e.g. the Laser sailors are all very good young and serious maybe you'd have more fun focussing on other boats? Personally I consider the boats and sailors who will give me a good race on the water and I try not to worry about doing well on PY. The rooster 8.1 can be hard to sail to its PY, but it can keep you in touch with faster classes sometimes. Some people the OP's size and age are more supple and agile than I am. others will find things like the Laser awkward in light air and would be happier with a Finn or Phantom. If you are going to spend proper money, think perhaps beyond your own pond. Which classes have local opens or fleets with regattas? Which classes offer coaching? Which classes hold events in nice places you might want to sail? These are great ways to improve your game.
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Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 4:31pm
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Thanks for the advice so far. I have never owned a golf Good points about the racing with the fleet. The Solution is closest on PY to the lasers. ------------- Wolfram |
Posted By: epicfail
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 4:41pm
| I returned to sailing after over 30 years off, it's like riding a bike etc -racing makes you better and it's great fun. |
Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 5:34pm
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Yes - I ventured out in the club Fusion for the first time a couple of weeks ago - I managed to sail a triangular course, putting in tacks, gybes - close hauled up wind, hiking on a broad reach, and silently running with the dagger-board up. It was great fun! I was surprised how much I had remembered. However, my tacking was appalling - I was completely at sixes and sevens - It can't have helped that I almost exclusively used aft sheeting in the past. Lots to remember, lots to learn (racing rules!) and lots to refine. ------------- Wolfram |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 7:36pm
| Phantom all day long: originally designed specifically for your size and inland waters. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 Jul 21 at 10:00pm
| Far too much emphasis being put on your weight. At 95kg you would be just fine in a Laser, Solo or Solution. Once you can nail every start, perfect every roll tack, hike flat out for 30 minutes, spot every wind shift and polish your boat every race then you can worry about a boat that suits the extra 5-10kg. |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 31 Jul 21 at 5:27am
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For clarification. My Phantom all day long was purely for comfort, the racing side is always secondary to a nice sailing experience in my mind. |
Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 31 Jul 21 at 11:17am
It's not just about racing results. With a powerful rig I'll be able to at least sit. I think I'd rather be underweight than overweight in light air. It is no fun kneeling in the middle of the boat when you have long legs! ------------- Wolfram |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 31 Jul 21 at 2:04pm
But I still think if you want an easier time of it a Phantom would be a good bet, despite what the Solution ads say about it being for 85kg people, that's BS, there's a 96-100kg Guy knocks us all into a cocked hat with his Solution but he's using that ultimate weapon of cheats..youth. Nobody should be allowed to race boats under fifty years old, it's just not fair racing
The Phantom or the Solution would be good bets, but the Solution is harder work to beat Lasers, you have to be on it, young and good or they make some stupid mistake. The Phantoms Boat Speed will make you a tactical genius, until the spreadsheet cuts in. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 31 Jul 21 at 5:57pm
Is that 405? On appollo duck at the moment? ------------- Wolfram |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 31 Jul 21 at 8:26pm
No, mine's 399. Think it's on fb market place or that dinghy and dinghy bits for sale group. Looking for two grand or there abouts.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 02 Aug 21 at 4:48pm
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Being the fastest boat on that sort of puddle full of Lasers and Comets and older singlehanders is just a bit boring - it tends to become "How many times can I lap so and so tonight?" - been there! Maybe it's worth looking at something a bit slower, with a bigger handicap but a decent sail area since puddle evening sailors are generally in either the "sit forward and sit still" camp or the "move around to pump as much as you can" camp and there are too many of the latter so it's not a level playing field. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 03 Aug 21 at 7:43am
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Maybe that venerable pond racer the OK? Sailing off 1104 and ILCA/Laser7 off 1100.
The PYs are close enough and it will carry weight. Boom is easier to get under than a Laser and you can modify to make comfortable. ------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 03 Aug 21 at 9:06am
Never experienced an OK Riv what are they actually like? Handicaps aside will a new one beat a new Laser over the water given equal weighted helms of equal skill? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 04 Aug 21 at 4:19pm
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Sorry, no real knowledge of the modern ones, last one I sailed had a wooden mast, but new ones have lovely carbon masts and look amazing. ------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: rich96
Date Posted: 04 Aug 21 at 6:47pm
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The OK is not well handicapped
Upwind a recent OK would normally be at least as quick as a Laser and probably quicker in waves. Running - similar Reaching they are dog slow compared to a Laser But - massive sailing range (80 - 110 kg ?) and lovely to sail Expensive initially but the hulls and rigs last Not uncomfortable and the boom pops us when you tack Much nicer boats really |
Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 05 Aug 21 at 5:13pm
| The OK is a lovely boat to sail, I picked up an old one with a tin rig and quite a nice sail, which I have been sailing in a handicap fleet. Its quicker upwind than a laser in the sub 10knt breeze that I have experienced to date, but its quite tweaky and sensitive to sail controls (I am still experimenting) dead down wind is on a par with laser and reaching its a bit slower, but responds very well to a bit of kinetics!! I get the feeling that it roll tacks better than a laser - i am still working on my timing) overall its a great boat. I would highly recommend |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 07 Aug 21 at 7:31am
| Phantom or Finn - at 95kg inland in dying breeze, you’ll find a laser a very disappointing experience |
Posted By: wolfram
Date Posted: 27 Aug 21 at 9:36am
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I've bought a Phantom. Just fettling the rigging and repairing gel coat etc. Hoping to get on the lake in a few weeks! Thanks for the advice. ------------- Wolfram |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 27 Aug 21 at 11:31am
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I was in a similar position a few years back: a similar weight, height and situation of returning to sailing after 15 years. What I worked out was that there are a bunch of boats that are similar to the Laser (d zero, aero, solution, solo) and you could sail these but our weight is a disadvantage whatever people will tell you. I worked out that my list of options was Finn, Phantom, Blaze and Hadron H2. I discounted the Blaze as the wings on a small pond was not ideal - can be done and people do but for me its a much better boat for bigger bits of water. I tried the Finn, Phantom and H2 - they are all nice boats with pros and cons. I liked that you tend to sit in a Finn and H2 rather than be on your knees like you are in a Phantom (they do have a deep cockpit version too). I went for the H2 in the end and am now on my second boat and love it; might also get a Finn one day to do the master circuit. ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 Aug 21 at 6:20pm
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Blah blah blah..wish my H2 had a decent sail...
Wolfram. good decision, enjoy. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 31 Aug 21 at 8:11am
Has a great rig Graeme - you just need to be skilled enough to set it up. Probably best to stick to your more basic rigs  ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 31 Aug 21 at 10:41am
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Funny, just last tuesday we had a well travelled visitor of my acquaintance from dinghy world down at our club, Just bought a Solo coffin, so I immediately set about him with the age jokes given his last ride was a foiling moth and an MPS prior to that and the subject of the H2 came up funnily enough on my suggestion. 'Great boat spolied by a crap sail' was his exclamation, having actually sailed one, so, my 'joke assessment' appears to have some validity, one day I'll get a go in one and find out for certain. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Grumpycat
Date Posted: 31 Aug 21 at 1:24pm
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It would be great to get grf boat test of a Hadron . Because he has a unrivalled ability… to pick the wrong horse. If grf likes a class , it’s doomed . At least if he dislikes it you know the class has a future in the medium term and is a good boat too. I have based all my boat buying decisions on this for the last 8 years and it’s worked every time
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 31 Aug 21 at 1:48pm
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The H2 rig requires some real time and effort to understand. If you get in the boat for a demo I very much doubt you would even get it in the ball park. To me that was part of the attraction of the class as I like understanding how things work. For example - it is very sensitive to spreader length - adding 5cm to each side results in heavy helms having to hike fully in 10 knots rather than being underpowered in 20 knots! ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 31 Aug 21 at 2:16pm
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Well I to like to understand why stuff goes wrong, I've completely f**ked my boat up again and this time I'm struggling to work it out, but I will, eventually. As to the H2 I've recommended it to a couple of my bigger acquaintances as one to look at, which was why the conversation went the way it did. I can't comment with anything other than ironic quips, because I really have no experience, but I've followed conversations around the boat, issues with light winds early on, have watched videos, as you do, because for most of us the chance to try a boat before buying never really occurs that often.
It's understandable once having bought something or other you're going to be defensive and that's how classes also f**k things up instead of recognising an area that could do with improvement, the hoary old chestnut 'oh once you get to know how to work it', through 'time and effort' gets rolled out instead of being sensible and redesign the bloody thing. It has always looked wrong, it's always had a way too hooky leech, bloody great fatheaded made for inland water leafy lakes thing, was always going to be horrid to a sea sailor like myself and my erstwhile damning friend. Just make a sail for the sea and one for inland, have both, double the boats appeal. Only don't call it a "wave" sail, call it Ocean Master, or Sea Rider and leave the old one labeled Inland Puffy Bender sail. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Gordon 1430
Date Posted: 31 Aug 21 at 2:18pm
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hI Richard Did you really mean 5cm or 5mm? adding 2" to spreader length is a lot. Regards Gordon ------------- Gordon Phantom 1430 |