Tow Cars
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13789
Printed Date: 09 Aug 25 at 10:41pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tow Cars
Posted By: Jamie600
Subject: Tow Cars
Date Posted: 21 May 21 at 7:03pm
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Now diesels seem to be declining in popularity, has anyone tried towing with the new breed of small capacity, turbo'd petrols and if so, how do they cope?
In the market for a new car, as my mileage has reduced since working from home a petrol would make sense, until you throw towing a RIB into the mix. I have researched this but best I can find is advice on towing caravans. ------------- RS600 1001 |
Replies:
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 22 May 21 at 10:32am
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I am a member of the caravan club, good advice available from them, not many caravans that can be towed by a Ford Focus 1 litre if any, they also struggle uphill with four adults in (steep hills), plenty of bhp, but torque right down, compared to a diesel. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: fab100
Date Posted: 22 May 21 at 12:40pm
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Mazda's Skyactive engines are 2 litre and eschew turbos Not tried towing with mine yet though ------------- http://clubsailor.co.uk/wp/club-sailor-from-back-to-front/" rel="nofollow - Great book for Club Sailors here |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 22 May 21 at 4:36pm
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I have towed a fair few trailers over the years from a small box trailer to a 20', 1 ½ ton cruiser behind a fair few different cars and I regularly towed a large windsurfing trailer (which probably weighed as much as a medium sized dinghy behind) and my Topper Spice behind a Micra running on LPG with no issues. I think that anything other than a small RIB might be a bit much for a 1 litre engine but it depends how big a RIB you are talking. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 22 May 21 at 6:38pm
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Running a tow hitch on my Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, seems OK, electric bit helps with low end torque, only draw back, small tank gives limited range over long distances. Staying local and charging from home it goes on forever for no money. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 22 May 21 at 8:56pm
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Thanks for the replies all.
Car in mind is a Skoda Kodiaq, RIB and trailer weigh 1100kgs. They do a 1.4 TSI petrol giving 150bhp, same output as the diesel but significantly less torque. GRF, I did consider the Outlander, but found the boot was a bit too small. ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 22 May 21 at 9:15pm
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The 1.4 tsi towing capacity is 1600kg braked, well within your limit. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 6:56am
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I thought that we were all going electric!
The latest EV s can tow. The new Kia EV6 can do 1,400kg, -it will obviously knock the range back a bit but it does 300miles-so you should get a good 200miles towing a boat |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 8:39am
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That might be worth a look, I can lease an EV through work but had discounted them as only the Tesla Model X and Audi E Tron had the boot space and towing capacity, but were over budget. ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 1:25pm
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Would have a very serious look at full electric vehicle before buying one, look at your driving history over 12 months, I know people who have to hire a internal combustion car to go on holiday (UK), totally useless if you 'say' are going to Cornwall from the Midlands, or Scotland etc. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 5:04pm
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It's starting to look like good old diesel might still be best for long trips towing ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: john80
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 7:08pm
| Went to pick up a 49er. 350 miles down on the Thursday then 350 miles back on the Friday. Diesel campervan all the way as far as I am concerned. Not impressed by a lot of the new vans with smaller heavily turboed diesel engines never mind small petrol engines. How long would I have had to spend doing this trip electrically. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 7:19pm
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As long as you never need to go to Bristol.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-50292596" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-50292596 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 8:12pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53837491 ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 9:22pm
| We can only hope, but I for one am holding off any car purchase until there is certainty. My fear is that first diesels will be banned, then petrols, then hybrids. Then the zone will be expanded. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 23 May 21 at 9:36pm
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Probably best to go with the hybrid, just been reading a article about the ecological disaster we are about to face from millions of car batteries that are full of toxins and are almost impossible to recycle,can see bans being moved further on. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 24 May 21 at 6:51am
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I don't do any town or city driving.
One advantage of buying on PCP is if diesels are banned/phased out/ plummet in value is that I can hand it back at the end of the agreement instead of paying the balloon payment. I can also hand it back once I have paid more than half the agreement, hopefully nothing is going to change significantly with regard to diesels in that timeframe. If I was paying cash I would be thinking differently ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: Alistair426
Date Posted: 24 May 21 at 7:58am
| The whole movement to fully electric vehicles is a long way away and getting further as the realities of range, infrastructure, etc start to become an issue. There will come a point when the sale of new diesels is banned but existing diesels/petrol vehicles become much sought after by people who need 'range' to be able to conduct business and live their lives. Concern is already being expressed about the effect the vehicle range issues may have on the domestic holiday market. |
Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 24 May 21 at 9:29am
| I have looked a lot at electric cars recently. I currently have a diesel car, but will be going petrol or hybrid next time and then electric when the prices have become more realistic and affordable (they are silly prices right now for quite an average car - you can buy a large premium petrol car for the price of a small family electric car). For towing a RIB or dinghy, the torque of a petrol engine is absolutely fine, unless you want a burn-up at the lights ..... |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 May 21 at 11:44am
Well mine's the van version (phev 4work) so plenty of space, but no need (nor means) to take passengers and I get to claim back the Vat. It's basically full of kit, toolboxes, wetsuits, trailer boards, dog bed and has that lovely changing room man smell of damp wetsuit booties so daughters of darkness don't drive it off, get p1ssed and abandon it outside gay bars like they used to with the T6. Now rumour has it a T7 hybrid is imminent and then it'll be back to my home vehicle of choice, I can't wait, this Outlander is a great vehicle but lacks roof height to put bikes in without removing front wheels and changing inside it doesn't work either which has been a bit of a ballache during Covid. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 24 May 21 at 11:57am
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Yeah I've got to carry all that stuff plus passengers, plus SWMBO has to like it, hence settling on the Kodiaq.
------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 May 21 at 1:48pm
Yep that can be an issue, I've always made sure she has her own wheels ever since she reversed my brand spanking new Porsche (Yeah I had money once, a lifetime and four daughters ago) into one of those posts in the bloody supermarket.. and I didn't shout at her, just went oh dear that's a nuisance.  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Bootscooter
Date Posted: 25 May 21 at 7:38am
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I am desperately keen to go full electric, but towing a Europe is a bit different to towing a RIB I guess.... I think I'm going to have to wait for 2-3 years, but intend to get a Mustang (of the current offerings) when I can afford it. Yes, long distance travel will provide challenges, but most of the cars now being produced are capable of far faster charging than is currently widely available, and the infrastructure will definitely catch up quickly if there's money to be made..... We've got the Europe Nationals at WPNSA next month, and there's a couple of competitors coming that have BEV cars who are very positive about the whole thing - I'll be having some good chats with them.
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Posted By: john80
Date Posted: 26 May 21 at 10:08am
I can miss a couple of sailing events in venues that are likely to become clean air venues. Most sailing clubs are in rural locations where this is not going to happen for the next ten years.
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Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 26 May 21 at 11:09am
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Yes I think that's where my head's at - car after next could be electric, but next car likely to be diesel.
Once the ranges improve, prices come down(?) and more models go electric, it might be an option but not at the moment. Edit - that was to Bootscooter's comment ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26 May 21 at 11:22am
You only drive when going to sailing events? I use the same car to get to work, cinema, hospital, restaurants etc. In normal times anyway. |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 26 May 21 at 12:12pm
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Interesting post on Y&Y that is not on the same old topics! Shock horror. My wife is dead set on going EV as soon as possible due to her views on climate change (which I am not interested in debating with you lot) - I have been trying to convince her to get a petrol / EV hybrid like the merc C-class estate but she really wants to go the whole way. Have been trying to find an EV that will do 250 miles and be able to take a tow bar and until recently this was a very limited list of possibles. Skoda have the Enyaq coming out soon which is of course based on the VW platform used by the ID4 which or Hyundai's new Kona also fits the bill and can be had around £250 per month or circa £30k to £35k which is starting to sound more realistic to me. ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26 May 21 at 12:35pm
| The Kia EV6 looks promising too. |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 26 May 21 at 8:08pm
| Agree the Kia ev6 looks really good-it does vehicle to grid as well so if you have PV panels it can run your home overnight |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 27 May 21 at 7:39am
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I like the look of the ev6 but it starts at £40k and for that kind of money I will take a tesla because they just have a better fast charging network. The only way I am going to get something else at this point is if its significantly less expensive to buy which is why the Hyundai Kona is on the list - does the range but starts at £30k. ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 27 May 21 at 11:16am
Ha, why does that not surprise me? 
As to the apparent rush for Electric vehicles there is just one issue, just like dinghy sailing in many ways, absolutely no standardisation of Connectors, I have two vehicles, both different and the only time we've found a solution for the Audi (her indoors) was in a Hotel in Germany and one which was in working order. (Another issue, they are very often out of service) Then don't even start me on the number of different companys offering payment for service schemes in different regions. We bought our Audi up in Glasgow (Online deal) and timed it with a break touring Northumberland, I think we found a working charge point with the appropriate connection point to our vehicle, once. There is still a long way to go before departing from some back up via hybrid, or range extender, or spare generator... So right now they are striclty the province of retired boomers like us with pretty much local journeys and Solar power to charge them with via our own charge points. How the hell they are ever going to bring charge points to some streets and older appartment blocks is beyond me. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Oatsandbeans
Date Posted: 27 May 21 at 11:16am
| Yes the Tesla charging network is great-but the new supercharger stations popping up are as good and the ev6 can take 800 volts so can charge at them faster than the Tesla |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 27 May 21 at 12:03pm
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People who are saying go for all electric, are probably the same people who are saying put your money in Bitcoin, keep away for years yet, Hybrid closest to where you need to be.
Terraced houses where they are already fighting over parking spaces (literally), and there are millions of them, city centres,all going to end in tears, home charging ain't going to work. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Smight at BBSC
Date Posted: 27 May 21 at 2:28pm
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Was fortunate enough to go to Garda a couple of years ago (2019 I think) in a Passat GTE (not mine!) with 4 adults, boot full and two 800s on a heavy double stacker. Plenty of go to tow from the drivetrain but at 20-25mpg we have to stop every 250 miles and there were very few opportunities en route to charge so almost entirely on petrol. In that situation a big diesel estate or van would've been the ideal. For a lot of UK events less of an issue but certainly not an ideal towing set up. Reckon if you're doing lots of towing atm and long drives to events a modern diesel maybe the best bet but not the most environmentally friendly by any means.... ------------- RS600 988 |
Posted By: john80
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 7:01am
I live in Cumbria so nearest city is 50 miles away and not a big city at that. Very few cities are going to charge people for passing by on motorways etc. Most cities if you want to visit them have good park and ride facilities. This is the rub for rural residents in that we would have to buy a 40-100k electric vehicle to get a workable range. Essentially the electric revolution is not great for those who arguably need their cars the most as they have no other options. |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 7:49am
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You're spot on there John. Urban medium to high earners at present. Rural, poor or old style terraced / flat dwellers not so handy.
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Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 10:01am
That's what's put me off hybrids, once you've done 30 miles or so on electric it switches to petrol. Add in the fact that you are carrying more weight in the form of the batteries and electric motor, overall fuel consumption is pretty poor. I had a series of hire cars in a previous job and got better mpg on the same journey - Retford to Cardiff - in a 245bhp Golf GTI than in any hybrid. And I was giving the Golf a very thorough 'test' The ironic thing is, modern diesels are cleaner than petrols in terms of CO2 emissions ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 5:02pm
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The NOX and soot is the problem, when you look down the valley and see a haze, it's smog from non dpf diesel cars.
Pollution from cars is lower than 1993 levels, there are millions of more cars than then too, but it's older diesels causing the problem. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 5:22pm
However good as they may be on CO2 the NOx and particulate emissions from diesels remain a significant problem |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 6:48pm
Ha, why does that not surprise me?  Did I not know at some point you would have had a Porsche  ------------- Robert |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 7:05pm
Which frequently found itself stuck behind caravaners who love nothing more than to travel in pairs creating veritable road trains of frustrated owners of vehicles not towing caravans. Seriously that sort of intel you should keep to yourself in polite society. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 7:23pm
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My caravans shipping length is 23 ft 7" attached to a Vauxhall Insignia estate (2 litre diesel), so a substantial combination, will be causing havoc with it tomorrow, large top box and kayak plus surf board on the roof, four bikes on a rack that fits between hitch and bracket, that's what I need an electric car to do. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28 May 21 at 10:15pm
Tell me about it! I live in a rural area near Bristol and work in Cumbria. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 May 21 at 6:26am
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Maybe we will all have to go back to living within horse and cart distance of work? And holidays by train?
Sounds idilic and dreadful at the same time. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 29 May 21 at 9:02am
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Fill London's streets with horses again and everyone would be demanding the return of diesel bueses, to reduce the polution! ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: Sussex Lad
Date Posted: 29 May 21 at 9:17am
Horses? All that muck would be good for the rose growers. I've even heard that people put it on their rhubarb!..........each to their own I suppose, I prefer custard. |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 29 May 21 at 7:39pm
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Octavia 1.4 TSI estate. Derby to Carnac with two Javelins, three bikes, lots of camping kit and three big blokes. No problem. Only got 30mpg tho. Those 1.4 engines are a bit gutless at low revs, but they'll do the job. ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 May 21 at 9:16am
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Trains will need a radical overhaul, apart from being packed they are too expensive, before covid I used to fly from Birmingham to Darlington for a quarter of the price of the train.
Hydrogen and flow batteries are the future, Sci-fi is hoping for mini reactors powering flying personal vehicles. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 30 May 21 at 10:31am
as usual the the apples and oranges comparison of train fares vs flight pirces |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 May 21 at 4:22pm
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Needs looking at, electric train with average life span of 30 years carrying hundreds of people, should be cheaper. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 9:07am
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Duty on airline fuel would be a good first step... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 9:33am
I read somewhere they were stopping internal flights, might have dreamt it though  ------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 9:38am
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https://flightfree.co.uk/post/should-a-domestic-flight-ban-be-applied-in-the-uk/ ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 10:21am
| So how are you meant to get from one end of the country to the other if flights are cancelled, diesels are effectively banned (petrol and hybrids surely to follow)and electric vehicles don’t have the range? |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 11:58am
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Train? It doesn't answer the boat towing issue but neither does a plane. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 12:17pm
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We will get what the Teflon messiah dictates
Personal transport will prevail, tourism industry will lobby for 'something' just not sure what yet? We will have HS2 soon, that will take a load of East and West coast mainline, metro in most cities, if we had better weather bikes and motorbikes would play a bigger role. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 2:46pm
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I guess with an aeroplane you don't need tracks, which must save a bucket load of cash, though the stations are more expensive for the planes.
Maybe we need a breakthrough with solar panels, so one on a car roof provides all the power needed? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 31 May 21 at 8:20pm
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We live on a small island but it is tall and oddly shaped if you want Cornwall or South Wales. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Sailerf
Date Posted: 01 Jun 21 at 7:05am
Its Hard to understand the benefit of an electric car when they are only cleaner at point of use. Shipping Tesla's from California on an heavy oil burning ship having first off shipped all the raw materials in to California in the first place, won't make it that green. Top that of with lots of sites like this a Gas power station. This one is working all day and night as they have knocked over Didcot. (pop the long and lat in to google to see it) It was suggested that the real benefit of electric cars too me before Corona was control in the fact the charging grid can decide if it will let you charge. Having been very skeptical of this view I now see that Tesla are doing this to some of there cars. 51°35'46.6"N 1°08'25.8"W |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 Jun 21 at 10:11am
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https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-tech/synthetic-petrol/
Looks interesting for motorbikes and vintage cars. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 04 Jun 21 at 10:49am
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That does look interesting but the projected cost of £1p/l is almost certainly without our fuel duty added on. I suspect the tax free nature of green fuel will disappear once they need the money!
The other point here is what about diesel? My old VW can run on 100% bio diesel as is with no modification. My newer common rail car will not. The irony is that in the quest for ultra clean engines pretty much no modern cars can run on clean fuel.
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Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 04 Jun 21 at 7:52pm
Thanks, that's the engine I'm looking at (150bhp version). 30 mpg with that sort of load isn't bad really, can't imagine the diesel would do better than 40. Car shopping tomorrow 😁 ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 05 Jun 21 at 7:32am
The only thing that concerns me with those is longevity. Petrol engines are doing well to get to 200k miles, I cant see these high boost, low displacement engines getting to 150k especially if worked hard. Time will be the judge of that one!
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 06 Jun 21 at 5:02am
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I don't know if I'd worry too much about the longevity of boosted petrols. We have a 20yr old Subaru WRX putting out 225hp from 2 litres with 130,000 on the clock............., oils, design and materials have probably advanced over that time as well.
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Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 15 Jun 21 at 12:05pm
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https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/355258/un-report-highlights-ethical-problems-electric-cars ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 17 Jun 21 at 3:10pm
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https://www.chargesmart.co.nz/post/cobalt-mining
------------- https://skiff-media.teemill.com/" rel="nofollow - T-SHIRTS https://www.photo4me.com/profile/23908/" rel="nofollow - PRINTS |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 18 Jun 21 at 9:41am
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If you can possibly wait to change, I would do so.
With Covid and huge delays on electronic components most factories are running on 4 months plus delivery. My local Volvo dealer has been told by Volvo that they cannot sell the display cars in the showroom- forward orders only! Used cars prices are at an all time high with huge increases recently because new cars are not available. Your car will get a good price but it won't cover the higher purchase price I am waiting till next year |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 21 Jun 21 at 6:53am
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I'd wait if I could but my current car really isn't fit for purpose anymore due to the amount of gear we are now having to cart round, and is likely to need big work come MOT time.
I've noticed the increase in used prices but managed to get a very generous discount via CarWow, so a new one is cheaper than a two year old one, as long as I don't mind the lead time. I found the dealers would only sell me UK stock, at full RRP, they were not taking forward orders at all. ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: ian.r.mcdonald
Date Posted: 21 Jun 21 at 10:37am
Glad you are sorted. I wanted to find an excuse to change myself - and failed! |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 21 Jun 21 at 1:35pm
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I changed this weekend from my old Ford Galaxy to a used Petrol Audi A4 estate; I test drove the new breed of EVs and decided I will wait a few more years - they do not (yet) tick enough boxes at a sensible price point and the charging infrastructure is lagging behind where it needs to be IMO.
------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 21 Jun 21 at 7:33pm
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I have had the same conundrum. My 1.5 TDCI Focus really struggled with a double stacker on the back. My solution (and bear in mind we run 2 cars anyway). An older diesel (with a dpf) for use on the longer/towing journeys. A mild hybrid for the day to day miles. Full electric just isn't there yet plus the ethical question over material sourcing. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 21 Jun 21 at 7:43pm
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I was lucky enough to drop for a very low mileage 2 litre diesel insignia estate, (before prices went bonkers) very boring car, but a good economical utility vehicle. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 03 Oct 21 at 7:50pm
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OK-sorry. bumping this as I am now actively looking for a new car. Small family estate, petrol hybrid, with a towbar. That rules out all VAG products I believe. Corolla can tow, but is really uneconomical. Warning to Seat buyers-even the petrol models need a non-standard pre-fit towbar pack at factory. My lovely 15-plate Golf might have to soldier on. Any thoughts anyone? ------------- Stewart |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 Oct 21 at 7:59pm
| 330e |
Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 03 Oct 21 at 8:48pm
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Made contact. Pricey! ------------- Stewart |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 04 Oct 21 at 8:14am
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I had the same question a few months back but decided that the petrol hybrids were a waste of time. The extra batteries and kit is really heavy and in reality you get a few miles of electric running not the 30 claimed so the eco-credentials look very weak, its just a tax wheeze for company car owners. The fact that most you cannot fit a tow bar too was the deciding factor so I got a used A4 estate and will wait a few more years to go fully elec. ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 04 Oct 21 at 12:02pm
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I agree H2. I run an 11 year old diesel Golf. Very happy with it. Always runs without problems (OK I really shouldn't have said that, tempting fate!). Someone smashed the back for us last year and the insurance co wrote it off, but a local garage bought a 2nd hand tailgate and bumper and it's as good as a 11 year old car again for less than the write off value. At the time I looked at electric and hybrid, with a towbar a requirement. But decided that the extra complexity, cost and weight of a hybrid is not worth it, for me or the environment. I'm hoping to get another 5 years or so out of my trusty Golf and hope that by then towing and recharging issue will be better handled. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 04 Oct 21 at 4:21pm
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We're running an older Toyota Yaris Hybrid. I understand that the new models have a towing capability - so care may be needed. The Hybrid system really works best (for us) in town where there's lots of stop/start traffic. We'll get about 55mpg+ around town, and about the same on long journeys. Think of it as a sophisticated start/stop engine system. There's no delay in moving off (unlike petrol start/stop systems) and it's auto transmission. Colin
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Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 05 Oct 21 at 1:44pm
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I don't think hybrids or BEVs are really ready to provide for towing just yet. OTOH with the rate of change in the market, I wouldn't be spending on a brand new fossil fuel car, as its value in a few years' time might be hit hard. Likewise, BEVs are improving fast and getting cheaper, so current models could lose a lot of value. We might replace 'her' car with a BEV in a couple of years, maybe in 5 years there will be a nice BEV alternative to my current diesel estate. BEV makers are probably quite right to concentrate on the average car users, who do less than 8k miles a year and avoid getting involved with towing, because too many people who tow. tow caravans which is horrendous in terms of kwh per mile. There may be a period when there is a shortage of decent used cars which can tow, but it's unlikely to be a real problem in the next 12 years or so?
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Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 05 Oct 21 at 2:29pm
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Last weekend we had an open at our club and it was the first time that I saw a Tesla tow a boat and an IPace, so people are doing it! ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 05 Oct 21 at 3:22pm
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The solution at the moment is to power the trailer/caravan itself. Out there and, apparently, available to buy. Towed 240 miles across the Alps recently, behind an Audi E-Tron Sportback without recharging. http://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/10/dethleff-introduces-the-e-home-caravan-a-self-powered-camping-trailer/" rel="nofollow - https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/10/dethleff-introduces-the-e-home-caravan-a-self-powered-camping-trailer/ And this, a small teardrop trailer, with its own power source, that charges your EV as you go. http://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/12/new-teardrop-trailer-for-electric-vehicles/" rel="nofollow - https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/12/new-teardrop-trailer-for-electric-vehicles/ ------------- Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays' |
Posted By: NicolaJayne
Date Posted: 05 Oct 21 at 3:24pm
seen the current X5 hybrid ? a friend of mine is being messed around on delivery dates for hers at present ; however , in terms of this thread- she and her wife chose the X5 because of towing capacity ( might want to tow an enclaosed car trailer for competition car) and interior space (thinking about family needs) ... |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 05 Oct 21 at 3:58pm
A claimed electric range of 54 miles. Likely about 40 when towing a boat? A very expensive bit of greenwashing, which is likely to use more dinosaur fuel than my old banger on a typical open meeting weekend. It's immensely heavy and will use a lot of enegy. Probably has a higher lifetime carbon footprint than a lot of sensible petrol cars. Plugin hybrids are very good for some people. I have a mate who has one, he generally manages to use it about 90% electric, but he's on call and needs to know he can drive a long way at short notice, so a pure BEV wouldn't work.
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Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 03 Nov 21 at 6:33pm
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Bit late on this .... But my 150bhp 1.4tsi Octavia with three large blokes inside it, towed:
A double stack trailer loaded with two javelins and all their kit, three bikes, camping gear for three. Bit slow off the mark, getting over hills between Roscoff and Carnac a bit trying. Only got 30mpg ( usually get 50+ ). Did the job though. One javelin no problem. One 3000, forget it's there. We took an outlander phev to Holland a previous year and by the time we'd gone 30 miles, the battery was flat and it was just a heavy 2.0 diesel. ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 Nov 21 at 12:38am
You did well to get 30 miles on battery, most Hybrids only have around 20 miles range before the ICE kicks in... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 10:00am
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10483317/amp/Are-electric-cars-new-diesel-scandal-Expert-looks-future-road-travel.html#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16442157765332&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com ------------- Robert |
Posted By: eric_c
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 10:22am
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Are electric cars the 'new diesel scandal'? I don't know, but I'm pretty happy with my scandalous diesel, apart from the fact that its mileage is now higher than the sail number of my Laser. The problem is not 'diesel cars' or 'petrol cars' or 'electric cars' it's too many cars, too many peole needing to drive too far, too often. But I don't think it matters any more, I think the climate is a long way past the point of no return.
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Posted By: Chris_H
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 10:36am
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As 423zero resurrected this thread, though I would chip in. I just ordered a new car yesterday. I dont buy my cars, I lease - its generally cheaper and I dont have the hassle of selling on. I really, really wanted to buy an electric car. Despite the doom stories of electric not being as eco as we all may think, it is kinda irrelevant. World governments have dictated that by 2030 (in most countries) that is the cut off point, so we might as well suck it up buttercup. Before covid, I was doing 15-20k miles per year. Travelling all over the place mainly for pleasure. Nowadays, with work enabling me to be at home mostly, and my leisure activities now mainly local, I now struggle to do 8k miles per year and I dont see that changing any time soon. My Jaguar E-Pace is coming to the end of its lease and starting to look like an expensive irrelevance. I looked at pretty much every electric car on the market, that was in budget. I have reduced my bedget to cater for my adjusted mileage. But can you find an affordable (to me) electric car that I actually WANT to drive that is certified to tow? Needle in a haystack for sure. Lease costs for a small electric car were coming in at more than my E-Pace! It has been a 6 month search and eventually have given up on electric this time round. The numbers dont add up and what there is wont allow you to tow. Maybe nearer to 2030, where there is more choice, more traction and more cars certified to tow, will be the decider. I dont have an issue with electric car range. In my view the issue is over-stated. How many people regularly journey over the stated range each day? Having a "fuel station" at home that I could use for buttons, is better for me than having to fill up with liquid-gold at the petrol station. However, I have ordered a Peugeot 2008 GT in Pearlescent White. (lets not go down that old trope about French car poor quality coz it just isnt true anymore). Its a nice car, nice inside, has cool 3D digital dashboard - and can tow. Delivery July, as I dont need it until then. If only there was a similar lease cost electric car, of similar size, that was certified to tow......  |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 11:00am
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A fairly typical DM "shock horror" piece, based on well known facts and little else. Yes, cost, access to charging and range are issues - but that's hardly new, and barely newsworthy . Yes, if you generate all your electricity from HCs then you gain nothing (though you do reduce urban pollution, which they don't mention) but that's increasingly less true, and as they are a form of energy storage combined with smart metering and charging they could help to store energy when renewables are plentiful or in excess.. Yes, cars are only part of the problem, and those need tackling too. Nothing new to see here. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 12:03pm
You'll only get 30 miles on the flat but given the Outlander is actually a petrol hybrid you have to doubt the tale. I'm still running one, picked up the Contender using it and whilst it's true the long journeys (Pagham and Back) don't afford much use of the battery and I have still yet to find a charge unit that's actually working in the three years we've been running hybrids, they are totally the thing to have if your journeys are predominantly local as mine are these days, club and back, nearby shopping centres etc and we use very little dinofuel and are fully solar powered so smug green at home. We also run an Audi 3 series Etron Hybrid which we need to replace shortly, can't have Mrs La di dah Gunner Graham running around her mates on an old plate, but I'm simply astounded at how prices have hiked. These days with PCPs etc they tend to ignore the actual price being charged for these things and just look at monthly fees, so contract leasing is looking very tempting. We had considered that X5 but agree with everything pointed out above, so right now the search is on again and Mercedes is regretably back in her cross hairs. Me I'm looking at the Custom Transit Hybrid, quite like the look of that, but what I really want is a Hybrid Pick Up which as yet has yet to appear over here unless anyone knows different. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 7:28pm
------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 07 Feb 22 at 7:32pm
This is available, not sure if that is the battery pack quite a few of this type, Ford have that mad one, with the huge ford letters, can't remember the name  Maverick I think, to tired to press the keys on google ------------- Robert |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 08 Feb 22 at 1:03pm
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-60286985  ------------- Robert |
Posted By: drifter
Date Posted: 08 Feb 22 at 9:21pm
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That will work. Though there's already a trailer, you're limited to an inflatable Tinker Tramp as a dinghy, room in the boot. Nice...(replying to the pickup post-does this forum support Firefox?) ------------- Stewart |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 09 Feb 22 at 7:06am
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I don't think the trailer is anything other than a prop. ------------- Robert |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11 Feb 22 at 9:19pm
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Seems that towing is a range killer for EVs. |
Posted By: PeterG
Date Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 10:12am
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No surprise surely, that carrying cycles and towing increases energy use. So more fuel (and emissions!) in an ICE, less range in an EV. But clearly it's something many might overlook. ------------- Peter Ex Cont 707 Ex Laser 189635 DY 59 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 10:49am
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Yes, but the extent of the range drop is alarming! A claimed range of 330 miles, real world of 230 miles (not towing) but only 100 miles towing. One hundred miles… can’t get to an Inland’s and back on that! And turning the lights, wipers and a/c on takes off another 50 miles. I was looking at a new car and normally I keep them 8 years or so to keep total cost down. Would have gone for a 3 series touring but am worried that buying ICE might hammer residuals in 8 years time, but family size EVs are crazy expensive and hybrids have no boot space. So I’ll keep my car another 8 years.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 11:03am
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I'm pretty sure towing a boat will have nowhere near the same impact on range as towing a caravan but it will still makes most EV's unsuitable for getting to events (or pretty much going on any holiday destination you would drive to). Unless you have on site charging available (and I doubt many camp caravan or camp sites will have the infrastructure to charge a significant number of EVs in the foreseeable future*) you are going to have to expend a significant proportion of your holiday charging the car or extend your journey times by, maybe, 50%. * My holiday destination is 120 miles away so probably doable towing the boat but they already have to resort to a large diesel generator to supplement the grid electricity at busy times, adding 200 EV's would probably take out the entire island's grid... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 12 Feb 22 at 11:37am
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A2Z, I forecast good condition ICE tow cars will be worth their weight in gold, electric cars aren't going to be much better in eight years time. ------------- Robert |