Pico- slow to turn in the tack
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13107
Printed Date: 09 Aug 25 at 2:38pm
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Topic: Pico- slow to turn in the tack
Posted By: tbanting
Subject: Pico- slow to turn in the tack
Date Posted: 06 Jul 18 at 3:10pm
I have a Pico this season- just finding my groove this season until probably going for something like a Hartley 12.2.
A quick question- I'm finding the Pico really slow through the tack. Will the small job sail help at all? Should I start learning the roll tack?
Any advice would be well-received.
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Replies:
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 Jul 18 at 5:48pm
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If you are going slow, you will tack slow, if you are going fast and tack slow you have a problem, roll tacking will help, mainly because you are not using the rudder to tack, the rudder acts like a brake,if you sail at a club can you ask a more experienced member to have a look
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 Jul 18 at 7:07pm
Make sure you are going properly close-hauled before you tack. Then be positive in your tiller movement as you go round. As 4320 says, make sure you are moving. Just like turning the handlebars on a bike when still, moving the rudder on a non or slow moving boat doesn't really work. Picos have big rudders, so tacking shouldn't be an issue.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 06 Jul 18 at 10:07pm
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You could possibly be letting your weight move too far towards the rear of the boat. Too far aft and on most boats (some more than others) the stern will sink deep into the water and act like a brake slowing forward and turning motion.
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Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 08 Jul 18 at 7:35am
My experience with Picos (instructing & sailing) is that they are great starter dinghies, however they do need some technique for tacking upwind.
1) before starting to tack, make sure the boat is moving fast ( don't try pinching upwind until the boat is almost stopped)
2) use lots of rudder to make the boat tack, and don't stop until you're completely round (Picos have a lot of hull drag for their size, will stop quickly and you only have one shot at a tack)
3) boat heel (roll tacking - or not)
a) method 1 - keep the hull flat throughout. This means that you move across the hull smartly.
b) roll tacking method.
Before the tack, let the boat heel to leeward. The hull shape will start the boat turning into the wind (you'll feel this through the tiller as increased force to keep a straight course), use the rudder to help the turn, and once the boom crosses the centerline, flatten the boat.
Many people start tacking with the boat heeled to windward ( I do with my Solo), but on a Pico, the hull shape means that you're fighting the hull steer with the rudder, creating lots of drag, and the boat will stop head to wind...
Summary, tack flat ( or heeled to leeward), fast and don't worry about overtacking.
Colin
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Posted By: tbanting
Date Posted: 09 Jul 18 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by ColPrice2002
My experience with Picos (instructing & sailing) is that they are great starter dinghies, however they do need some technique for tacking upwind.
1) before starting to tack, make sure the boat is moving fast ( don't try pinching upwind until the boat is almost stopped)
2) use lots of rudder to make the boat tack, and don't stop until you're completely round (Picos have a lot of hull drag for their size, will stop quickly and you only have one shot at a tack)
3) boat heel (roll tacking - or not)
a) method 1 - keep the hull flat throughout. This means that you move across the hull smartly.
b) roll tacking method.
Before the tack, let the boat heel to leeward. The hull shape will start the boat turning into the wind (you'll feel this through the tiller as increased force to keep a straight course), use the rudder to help the turn, and once the boom crosses the centerline, flatten the boat.
Many people start tacking with the boat heeled to windward ( I do with my Solo), but on a Pico, the hull shape means that you're fighting the hull steer with the rudder, creating lots of drag, and the boat will stop head to wind...
Summary, tack flat ( or heeled to leeward), fast and don't worry about overtacking.
Colin |
Excellent advice- many thanks and I can't wait to give it a try!
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Posted By: tbanting
Date Posted: 09 Jul 18 at 4:19pm
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Many thanks- I think I may book an instructor for a few hours and get some feedback as well.
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Posted By: tbanting
Date Posted: 09 Jul 18 at 4:20pm
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Ah yes- I need to keep an eye on that- good pointer, thanks!
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 09 Jul 18 at 4:31pm
If you have the jib then it's worth trying sailing without a rudder to learn how the boat responds to sheeting and heel. lift the daggerboard about 1/3rd and either remove the rudder or, if you are not confident, just bungee the tiller extension to the tiller so it can't get jammed. Then to head up into a tack you would sheet in the main hard and let the jib go, heel to leeward and the boat should turn without needing any input from the tiller. Also try sailing on a reach balancing the main, jib and heel to sail in the direction you want to go. It is possible to do this without the jib too by relying much more on heel to steer (heel to leeward to steer into the wind and to windward to steer away) but it's a lot easier with two sails. Obviously don't try it if there's much wind.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 09 Jul 18 at 6:44pm
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Sam, Excellent. I've found it easier to sail rudderless in a centreboard dinghy in F3 - F4.
The centreboard pivots, and so moves the pivot point of the dinghy, as well as using the mainsail & jib. My Solo doesn't quite sail rudderless, but the techniques learned mean I use much less rudder while sailing -hence faster!
Colin
Ps tbanting, where are you sailing?
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 10 Jul 18 at 9:20am
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Yep, a centreboard does make it easier.
For the OP, if you can't understand how you can steer without a rudder visualise sailing dead downwind. heeling to the right has these effects, all of which cause the boat to turn left :- a. The rig moves to the right of the centreline so the driving force is on the right, like padling on the right only. b. The daggerboard moves to the left causing drag on the left (dragging the left paddle) c. The curve of the bilge goes deeper in the water on that side causing the boat to turn following that curve.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 10 Jul 18 at 12:02pm
[TUBE]JZAPz9BCqJM[/TUBE]
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http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group
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Posted By: tbanting
Date Posted: 10 Jul 18 at 1:11pm
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Im sailing down in West Sussex- Dell Quay. I have seen the Solos and looked on with envious eyes! ;-)
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Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 11 Jul 18 at 9:49pm
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The Solo (and firefly + some others) can roll tack in a different way...
Start the tack by heeling lots to windward. This pushes the bilge into the water and creates drag on the windward side, helping the hull to turn. The immersed hull is now quite broad and short, so turning the boat is easier. Wher around, cross the boat and sit up to (new) windward side. The roll can generate wind across the sail as you roll the boat...
Colin
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 11 Jul 18 at 10:41pm
I'm not sure that's how it works, heel to windward causes the boat to bear away. The heel to windward happens as you pass through the eye of the wind (the first roll from leeward heel to windward, fanning the sail throughout the air and driving the boat forward). The second roll (at the start of the new tack) fans the sail a second time and brings the speed back up. In a two hander you'd let the jib off to help the turn but in a una-rig the leeward heel and fanning of the rig starts the turn and, I guess, momentum finishes it off.
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish"
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Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 02 Aug 18 at 10:04pm
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Never had trouble tacking my (kids' old) pico (which I still have for very windy days and sentimental reasons) It has a relatively huge rudder, is quite floaty and ought to spin on a sixpence.
Just ram the tiller across. Bit of leeward heel before the tack helps and a bit of a roll / pump as you go through the wind. AS you get better use less rudder and more roll. In fact when tacking from beam reach to beam reach in a blow it will spin so fast (pivoting around the centre board) it goes backwards for a bit before heading off on the new tack. Loads of fun.
Are you sure yours isn't full of water? Sent a mate out in mine once with no bung in and after 15 min she found it became all unsteerable.
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Javelin 558
Contender 2574
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