Rotomould recycling
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13074
Printed Date: 18 Aug 25 at 10:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Rotomould recycling
Posted By: piglet
Subject: Rotomould recycling
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 11:01am
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Plastics & plastic waste seem to be topical at the moment.
Does anyone know where to take end of life rotomould boats? What are our well known boat manufacturers doing about it? How many plastic bags worth is a RS Vision for example? Rant over. |
Replies:
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 11:34am
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There is that huge patch of plastic in the Pacific - size of Germany some say. Reckon there are a fair few rotomould boats in there!! ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 11:51am
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All plastics are recyclable but most are not viable to recycle. Clear hdpe and ldpe are worth it. I think a rotamould may be polypropylene and should be worth it. If not it'll be landfilled or incinerated ------------- Steve |
Posted By: AlanH
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 12:32pm
| Good question. While GRP boats often last 40 years, I think the life of rotamoulds will be much shorter. What does anyone know about disposing of other types boats, eg GRP, FRP, wood, as well as rotamoulds? I've only seen chainsaws being taken to GRP boats, then to landfill, but that's hardly ideal. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 12:35pm
| When did rotomould boats first appear ? |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 1:38pm
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Was the Pico the first one?
But don't forget Toppers Polypropylene ought to be recyclable and they've been banging them out since the 70's. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 2:26pm
| we have a Magno that's at least 15 years old, their doesn't appear to be any signs of degradation, boats in good usable condition, not sure a GRP boat would have stood up so well. |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 2:50pm
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According to Mr. Google, a company called Dalecuts in Lancashire offer recycling for rotomould parts.
I'm not sure they would be best pleased if everyone started turning up with dead boats though. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 3:58pm
If it is profitable (and why would they offer it it it wasn't?) I'm sure they'll be delighted.....  ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 5:18pm
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If the rotamould is made of polypropylene, then a recycler will pay around is around 3p per kg at their gate. So a 70kg hull is worth £2.10 and you'd have to deliver it. Basically, a negative cost. Or you can leave it in the nettles until the price of oil rises, then the numbers may work. ------------- Steve |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 6:11pm
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The 3 different layers cause problems for recycling, or used to. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 9:17pm
I was meaning profitable for them....... Within reason I would deliver a boat to them if they would recycle it and they could keep the £2.10....... Except I don't have any rotomould boats....... So we need to revert to wooden boats built with copper nails and hide glues. Oh and cotton sails (though ally masts would be acceptable as aluminium is one of the most recyclable materials I can think of.... Now rgete's calling for the smartarse brigade, it's been a long day and I'm just about to pour the second pint....)  ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 29 May 18 at 9:55pm
All metal should be stripped off the boat and sold separately. Aluminium masts are valuable whereas carbon stick worth booger all ------------- Steve |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 4:51am
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I've got some rotomolded polyethylene Windsurfers that are now about 40 years old and still going well. If they are protected from UV do they have a shorter lifespan than 'glass or wood? ------------- sailcraftblog.wordpress.com The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 6:46am
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Plastic pipes have a usable life of 100 years.
Polypropelene can be melted to a liquid repeatedly and injection moulded. |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 7:52am
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I've just read the RYA article on what we as boaters should be doing to reduce our plastic footprint.
Avoid single use plastic was the 1st point. That's rotomoulds out then. |
Posted By: Oli
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 7:57am
hopefully owners will take this end of life value into account in the overall cost of the boat and not abandon them to the nettles, perhaps the manufacturers should offer a recycling incentive when purchasing. ------------- https://skiff-media.teemill.com/" rel="nofollow - T-SHIRTS https://www.photo4me.com/profile/23908/" rel="nofollow - PRINTS |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 8:34am
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What rotomoulded boats are abandoned ?
Their are none at my club, oldest boats are Toppers, but these aren't rotomoulded and are a different plastic ? Well, that's what I was led to believe. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 9:04am
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Eventually polypropylene boats do degrade and do have accidents. I've just had to bribe someone to take away a Topper that was attacked by antifreeze (still worked, just looked horrid). I have another one that was dropped on a sharp edge and has a damaged gunwale (big chunk out). The RYA have just done an inspection of our training boats and are keen on a good appearance, so the one with the chunk out is no longer being used. (Good otherwise). Any one want a free hull in South Devon? I had a Wayler School board that someone dropped on a sharp edge (polyprop') and was economically un-repairable at the time. That had to be cut into small pieces and taken surreptitiously to the local tip. Having listened to the BBC's Plastic Fantastic radio program series, it is clear that any sort of mixed plastic is very difficult to recycle so all the three layer boats maybe impossible to recycle economically. In an ideal world I would prefer to buy aluminium hulls like the Grumman Canoes so beloved in the US and Canada. Totally recyclable and dead easy to repair. Last forever. However I expect that the aesthetics of the material are against it here, though if combined with wooden trim and decks this maybe mitigated. ------------- Mistral Div II prototype board, Original Windsurfer, Hornet built'74. |
Posted By: Old bloke
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 9:37am
| Riv,in most of South Devon most of the non recycling rubbish ,and the non recyclable recycling is incinerated and generates a fair bit of electricity. So you can cut your boats up into bits and feed them into your black bin with a fairly clear conscience |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 10:12am
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Some of the rotomoulds I know would be 30 years old and either sailing 50 times a year in schools, or still winning national title trophies. Something that is used 1500 times is not "single use" as far as my maths can make out. How many litres of petrochemicals are used to make high tech boats and sails that become obsolete, or used to drive them to Opens? ------------- sailcraftblog.wordpress.com The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
Posted By: Cirrus
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 11:17am
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Guess then we should all sit at home, eat very little, forget about going out and whatever you do don't breed or consume anything not grown in your very own eco window box. 'Sport' could also be 'gamer' based and virtual naturally. Oh brave new world etc ..... (and you are welcome to it ...)
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Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 11:34am
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Nope, we should keep things in perspective and see that most sailing craft probably represent a very, very, very effective leisure use of petrochemicals. The main point was that singling out rotomoulds for criticism on the grounds that they are "single use" appears to be unfair. A proper analysis of the full life of a range of different types of craft may well indicate that a smallish, slow-ish roto that is happy on a lake close to the owner's home may cause the use of far less petrochemicals than a high-tech high-speed boat that gets towed from home to open water. My own craft include both types so I'm not pointing fingers at anyone else, merely defending a type that is often maligned.
------------- sailcraftblog.wordpress.com The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 12:00pm
Lincolnshire buries very little waste now recyclables are recycled if people segregate their mixed recycling from their residual waste , garden waste is composted , residicual waste goes into a big energey from waste plant near lincoln |
Posted By: boatshed
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 2:43pm
Off thread now but China has banned the import mixed plastics and mixed paper. They were paying for this. This has caused a huge upset in the UK's waste management market. The 'recycling' targets started by many councils will be revised as the China market has closed. I think we'll see a lot of new waste incinerators being applied for. Depending on what opinion you read, they are either marvellous energy generation plants contributing to the UK's green energy supply or works of the devil I looked on Wiki and a Topper is made from injection moulded polypropylene. If they were a natural, 'clear' colour, their value on the recycling market would be higher. Coloured products are worth less and laminated (think hull and deck) coloured products lower the value again. I suspect landfill or incineration are the only options for disposal of Toppers and the new breed of rotamoulds. ------------- Steve |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 30 May 18 at 9:22pm
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Jo Richards did a talk on it at the dinghy show a few years ago. The prototype Bugs went for recycling. Apparently, the next level down is building site toilets, which then become traffic cones, which are the end of the line. Possibly because they are all in student bedrooms. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 31 May 18 at 5:47am
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Clearly then one should separate hulls and decks on old toppers and save them up until there are enough to make a delivery to a recycler cost effective.
And defining a boat that will hopefully be used hundreds of times over its lifetime as single use is ****wit stupid... Possibly what would be ideal would be for the manufacturers to provide a service by which they'll pick up an old boat while delivering the new one, and the old ones get hull and deck cut apart, stacked in a corner of the yard then recycled in batches. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 31 May 18 at 7:00am
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I think the single use comment might have been tongue in cheek, not sure it was a flaying offence. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: H2
Date Posted: 31 May 18 at 8:46am
Oh but that will not stop the usual suspects who seem to only have a sense of humour about their own, or their little on-line clique's comments ------------- H2 #115 (sold) H2 145 OK 2082 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 31 May 18 at 9:20am
I'm sure I've read of ex roto stuff being turned into plastic house bricks, and paving sheets for roads, I never did grasp why the 'Industry' suddenly switched to the rotomould, it happened just as I was getting started, Topper & Laser being the main offenders if I recall, that worked well for them. Handed the lead market share to RS at a stroke despite their dubious products of the period. |
Posted By: Chris 249
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 4:11am
The problem is that there have been many derogatory comments about rotomoulds that have been made in dead earnest. It's not easy to spot whether someone is being tongue in cheek and trying to be funny, or just sneering. Secondly, if tongue in cheek posts should be read in a positive light then why shouldn't the replies to them also be read in a positive light? ------------- sailcraftblog.wordpress.com The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 7:12am
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My single use comment was not tongue in cheek at all.
Rotomould boats are a single use of the material if it is not recycled. This is also true of composite boats but there is no system in place for bulk composites recycling, yet. My original point was/is Rotomould polymer is a recycleable material but we are not. Why not??? I have the job of disposing of an end of life Pico training boat. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 7:42am
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Single use suggests 1 sail, then bin, like a cucumber plastic wrapper. Using a boat for 10 or even 20 years (or 5, maybe in a sailing school) would seem like good use compared to almost any other plastic product. If it can be turned into bricks, or pothole filler at the end of that, all the better.
As to why Topperand Laser went rotomould, it was because they kept on losing money on their racing boats, barring the main two. They probably got fed up the class associations, too! ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 9:02am
The problem is, your end of life pico is probably 'end of life' because it's seen a lot of sunlight and gone brittle? That tends to mean it is degraded plastic and not directly recyclable, it has chemically changed, you cannot just melt it down and mould something new as you might with aluminium. You can use it to make something which demands very little strength from the plastic perhaps. This is why things made from 'recycled' plastic are usually crude and heavy, like park benches. It's borderline 'greenwashing' in some cases, more about storing the waste off the books than making an actual product.
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Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 9:59am
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AIUI Aluminium, once it's been anodised, cannot be melted down and recycled... ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 10:14am
| The anodic film created in anodising is 100% pure aluminium. Anodised aluminium can be recycled through simple re-melting without any intervening process. ... The recycling of composite panels is even more complex because of the extraction and destruction of the core material. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 10:35am
Actually, the anodised surface is aluminium oxide with a bit of dye in it. Probably some oxides of whatever the aluminium is alloyed with, e.g. silicon, magnesium etc. Anodised ali is among the most favoured for recycling, it's less problem than paint, plastic coating, alochrom and most of the other surface treatments.
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Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 11:10am
I stand corrected  ------------- Nick D-Zero 316 |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 11:20am
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No Noah
I stand corrected
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 01 Jun 18 at 12:16pm
In my youth I was briefly an industrial chemist. We were presented with (IIRC) a requirement to strip a nylon coating from aluminium zip fasteners to permit recoating where the original coating had failed QA. We didn't succeed in finding a formulation to do the job, and I wasn't allowed to send out my report which recommended dissolving the aluminium out of the nylon and starting again... |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 9:42am
in the case of the topper where the hull is mainly the two monolithic injection mouldings splitting for recycling makes sense as the only 'mixed colour' part is the seam area which iirc has wire in it to aid the bonding process boats are not 'single use 'plastics - that's straws , (cheap) plastic cutlery, cheap plastic / foam takeaway containers , plastic cleaning product / toiletry / cosmetic packs etc etc etc |
Posted By: zippyRN
Date Posted: 04 Jun 18 at 9:43am
presumably in that scenario - you'd then 'dry' the aluminium solution and throw the resulting back into smelters ? |