cheap singlehander for inland lake racing
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12736
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 3:09am
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Topic: cheap singlehander for inland lake racing
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Subject: cheap singlehander for inland lake racing
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 2:18pm
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I know I've been here before but I can't find the old thread, and the question is slightly different this time round. I'm looking for a cheap singlehander to race, mostly midweek, at Leigh and Lowton SC. I have been towing the Blaze home and had some good racing the couple of Wednesdays I've made it. I would consider another cheap Blaze if one came up (one sold on ebay a few weeks ago for £640) but it would probably make more sense to buy something better suited to a 140 acre lake. The obvious choices would be a Laser (or Radial) or a Solo as they both have fleets but I'm not a fan of Lasers and decent plastic Solo's are out of budget. Others I've considered, Europe (I've just sailed open and feel I'm just a little bit big for it), Streaker (no decent plastic ones around and in budget), Supernova (a bit more power than I would like maybe?), Solution (none about at any price but out of budget when they do appear) . I'm 64, weigh 77kg in me shorts, only averagely fit and agile. Budget is £600 but could be stretched a little and I don't want a wooden boat as it will live at the club all year round. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Replies:
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 2:46pm
| Laser |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 4:02pm
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Think you'll struggle at 600quid and plastic, might want to be spending nearer 1000 if you want to open up your choice; but if not fleet racing then how about, Streaker
British Moth
Lightening Supernova ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 4:05pm
 You're right TT, that would be the sensible thing to do but see above...... If there is an alternative...... And, actually decent Lasers are not cheap, if I could justify the £2k a good one costs I'm up into Solution/Supernova money. And I doubt I'd feel much pride in ownership of a £500 Laser with soft decks and a blown out sail. I don't know about you but that matters, it's part of what makes me want to go down to the lake and sail.
Neptune, British Moth might feel a bit small (sailed a Europe, loved the boat but felt I was too big for it, might revisit though) and aren't they mostly wood in my budget? Good plastic Streakers aren't cheap, 'nova and Lightning are on the shortlist. Used Lightnings are cheap as chips and it looks a bit like a big Europe/small Finn. An older Supernova might just be affordable but trying to find the sweet spot between underpowered in the light (Europe) and too physical when it blows on a relatively gusty inland lake (Blaze is a bit of a handful then). ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 4:59pm
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If its for a mid week summer series i'd lean towards being over powered given average evening windspeeds.
if nothing else you'll not stay averagely agile for long :) To be fair I just rolled through different classes on Apolloduck to see what might be there, depends what you mean still be "good" though. ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 5:05pm
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A few extra quid could buy you my EPS, I originally bought it for a lake, but ours is a bit small even for it, it's got both sails and a purpose designed none class 'soft' sail which makes it more manageable on the start line and in and out of transitions.
Or they come up now and again, I've enjoyed it and still do, but it's on the 'reduce your boat count if you want a motorbike' demand list from SWMBO ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 5:57pm
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Lucky you Graeme, my wife has discouraged motorcycle ownership (which she's not keen on me embracing again) by allowing me to indulge my guitar and boat fetishes (to a point). I would like another bike but I'm happy to make said compromise as it makes her happier. But, you're a bit far and EPS doesn't tickle my fancy. Probably go for a Supernova if funds stretch a bit further as there are a couple at the club. Unless you want to move the Solution on super cheap ;)
Neptune, there's a 'nova on the duck at £900 so that might be a possible if he'll take an offer, a cheap GRP Streaker (but, apparently, the early glass ones were not so good) and a couple of fairly cheap Lightnings. Good, in this context, means sound, leak free and not too scruffy looking. Not so keen on a 30+ year old Laser which seem to fetch that kind of money. I agree about over rather than underpowered but not by too much preferably (so not a Phantom).
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 6:16pm
Hmm no I like the Solution, how about a nice MiniSprint, got one of them I don't seem to find enough time to use either?  I can't live without a bike which I shall also probably get fed up with and sell like the last one, but right now, I need it more than ever to attempt to restore my bad boy mojo in the face of being nouveau vieux.------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 6:33pm
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 7:48pm
| Comet, comfortable, easy to handle ashore ? |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 9:49pm
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Try the Lightning. Lovely inland boat, good value secondhand, feel like a cross between Europe and Laser, kind of. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 04 May 17 at 10:38pm
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Yes, might do that (but it would probably mean buying one on spec and re-selling if it didn't suit me). Yup, Comet might be a good call, though maybe a bit too 'L@ser' (like the Byte which, despite the C2 rig, I'm probably a bit big for). ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 05 May 17 at 10:02am
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I quite fancy one of those Lightnings for the lake looks like the sort of thing I could still handle in a blow, that or an infernal Streaker
------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 05 May 17 at 11:47am
I'm fairly sure when it comes to a Laser EPS, you ought to be giving someone 600 quid to take it off your hands....
 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 05 May 17 at 11:58am
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Try a Europe Graeme, delightful boat for those a few kilos lighter than I am these days :) ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 9:05am
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You can pick up a really nice wooden Solo for very little e.g. http://www.solosailing.org.uk/for-sale/boats/solo-4595-1/
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 9:18am
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You can, I agree, and it's tempting but I have to keep reminding myself that I have decided I don't want to invest the time and effort to maintain a wooden boat (been there, done that). Also, at £2k I'm in decent Mk1 Supernova or cheap Solution money or even a second Mk2 Blaze (though there was a very tidy looking wooden Solo on the Duck until a couple of days ago for only £800, and not far from me too).
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: 423zero
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 10:40am
| I keep looking at the lightning 368, going to have to try one. |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:21am
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Just wading my way through a huge thread about the Lightning http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5355&PN=1&title=lightning-368" rel="nofollow - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5355&PN=1&title=lightning-368 A couple of things have been mentioned, in particular the low boom, it was suggested that it's as low as a Europe (which would take it off my shortlist) and that they are a handful in a blow. So I'm back at Streaker and Supernova (with a possible side order of Solo/L@ser Radial). Has anybody sailed both 'nova and Blaze in a breeze? I love the Blaze on the sea (and on the Lake TBH) but think I would find something narrower/rack free easier on the lake.
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:31am
------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:39am
Why, do you?  It is a cracking boat though..... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 2:29pm
Having owned both, there is no comparison in boom height. It is both higher and the cockpit deeper. Plenty more room than a Laser, for comparison. In a blow, they will have nosediving issues if you take too much kicker off and free the main too far. The old needlespars are quite bendy, and can end up over the bow. They are no worse than the Europe, which I turned into a paddling pool several times, with the bonus of being self draining. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 2:59pm
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I looked at the google images for the Lightning after I posted and had reached that conclusion I won't be sailing it on the sea so the nosediving issues are probably somewhat mitigated. There are a couple of cheap ones on Apollo Duck just now but at the other end of the country (one near my sisters though, I feel a visit coming on). Still thinking Supernova at the moment, I'm a better light wind sailor than heavy so I'd like something that flatters me when it blows (like the Blaze). ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: turnturtle
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 3:06pm
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GRumpf - If you sailed half as well as most of the women who've ever spent significant time in the Europe Class, you'd be taken a shed load more seriously ;-)
They are amazing boats - shame us young chaps weren't kicked out of Oppies at 13 and into them for a few seasons - far nicer boats than Laser Radials, Bytes etc |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 3:13pm
I'm still tempted to try to lose a little weight so I could sail a Europe, but then reality kicks in....... 
So, realistically I'm down to Supernova, Lightning 368 and Streaker. There are used examples of each around at prices I'm prepared to consider. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 5:06pm
 ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 10:58pm
I have owned or sailed all of these. If you are over 12 and half stone buy the supernova. If you are under this and want a bargain/cheap boat, buy a lightning. If you have more money to spend buy a streaker.
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Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 06 May 17 at 11:28pm
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Interesting as Alan Gillard says on the Streaker website says :- "As any of you who have tried it will know, windy weather Streaker sailing can be a difficult, but exciting experience that needs some practice and preparation to enable you to enjoy it to the full. To start with the boat isn't very well balanced on the helm. Upwind, despite it's obvious natural love of heading into wind, the boat becomes difficult to tack and maintaining the optimum heading needs excessive rudder movement if you are to keep on top of things." Doesn't inspire confidence..... The Supernova website suggests that the competitive weight range is 60-90 kg I'm around 12 stone (77kg in my shorts) so exactly in the middle. Is the Super nova CA selling duff information or is 12.5 stone (80kg) the minimum weight to be competitive in the 'nova? The Streaker, which is considerably shorter than the 'nova (410mm) claim a similar weight range, and the top ten at the 2016 Nats had sailors from 58 to 82kg. I'm nearer the top end of that range but still feel I'd be a bit heavy for the boat?
------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 07 May 17 at 7:12am
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A number of our Streaker helms have invested in the "Splash" mainsail - reduced size for those blustery days. Colin
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Posted By: zeon
Date Posted: 07 May 17 at 9:11am
| I was 73kg when I had my supernova, had less trouble with it in heavy weather than I did with the laser I had before it. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 07 May 17 at 5:53pm
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Alan Gillard's idea of windy weather might be more like some of our stay in the bar weather? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 07 May 17 at 6:11pm
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You may well be right but it's still a bit of a worry seeing it on the website....... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 May 17 at 9:32am
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That Streaker is a bit agricultural to sail, chunky flat sided foils don't help and the one I tried exhibited weather helm quite out of proportion for the size of boat and sail, I didn't like it at all. Difficult to believe but the Solo which pre dates it felt better, not that I liked it much either, Spiders live in them and I wasn't impressed by the way they tried to abandon ship just because I took the helm.
I'm under immense pressure to get a Laser for the sea and a Streaker for the lake, there are fleets of both and I'm being told how much better I'd do racing in a class, but if it's at the expense of sailing something horrible doesn't that negate the whole reason we do this? I do it for enjoyment and doing well, winning/losing is not even secondary to the actual fun of the chase and the chase is enhanced by sitting in something comfortable and well mannered so you can concentrate on what's outside the boat rather than its bad manners. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 May 17 at 10:02am
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Yes, exactly. It's back to owning a boat that makes you want to get out of bed to go sailing. Like you, Laser and Streaker just don't do it for me. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 May 17 at 10:13am
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That Supernova is a nice ride, it's just got a sh*t rig, large roached fully battened piece of crap that is difficult to control on the start line I recall, I'd buy it, ditch the sail and have a semi soft sail built to the same measurements, like I did for the EPS, which is a joy (relatively) compared to its supplied sail. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 May 17 at 11:49am
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That's a nice idea but I don't think I could get away with that, the racing at L&LSC is fairly serious and there are a couple of 'novas there already. However I do have a similar (but much larger 12 sq metres to the 'nova's 8m) FB mainsail on the Spice and don't think of it as problematic. Oh and I think the Supernova class rules allow for a cut down sail to be used at any time. So down to Supernova and Lightning 368 unless a very cheap Solution suddenly turns up. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 08 May 17 at 11:55am
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So you speak to the other Nova riders about doing a deal with a local sailmaker and all agree to have the same sail which no doubt will be cheaper than the supplied rig - simples
Supernova class rules? I think you'll find that's one set of rules for the builder to screw with anytime it suits him and entirely another set for the paying consumer, tear them up, would be my advice.. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 08 May 17 at 4:47pm
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Another reason to consider a Supernova is the number of open meetings they have in the North, some of which I may enter. In which case I would need the standard sail....... ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 27 May 17 at 8:42pm
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If somebody has a serviceable Solution for under £1200 I will buy it, cash...... If not (which looks the likely answer) what should I do, buy an early Supernova or a second (cheap mk1) Blaze? Both are available for less than £1200. I'm really enjoying the Blaze but am aware of it's shortcomings on a small inland lake (TBF my shortcomings exceed those of the boat). A boat I can sail somewhere near it's PN would be nice and the 'nova looks like a proposition (and I'm going to look at a couple next month if nothing more obvious appears). However, extensive reading of the Supernova forum reveals a frightening number of weight/durability issues with early Giles built boats, heavy but strong or light but fragile. I'm looking for a boat that is good for a 75-80kg sailor, inland (so no kite/trap/racks) but I'm 64 and not as bendy as I was so Europe (which I did fancy) and OK (which I sailed as a teenager) are out. I will probably buy a 'nova if either of the ones I'm going down south to look at are in decent nick but that's 2 ½ weeks away and alternatives would certainly receive consideration (especially if you are selling). ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 27 May 17 at 9:43pm
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Solo ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 28 May 17 at 9:05am
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That might be the obvious choice but I don't want a wooden boat and can't afford a FRP Solo. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 28 May 17 at 9:50am
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Cheap supersofa in the north...
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=511691 ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 28 May 17 at 10:04am
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Thanks Rupe, t'is on the list for potential viewing ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Neptune
Date Posted: 28 May 17 at 11:51am
With fleets starts, or results at least for Solo that would seem the absolute best choice. A wooden boat, with a good cover and modern paints probably needs much less maintenance than you think. Depends if you want to do well because you sail well or because your boat has an easily achievable handicap ------------- Musto Skiff and Solo sailor |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 28 May 17 at 12:23pm
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I've done my share of wooden boat maintenance so whatever I buy has to be plastic. Unfortunately a competitive Solo is at least £4k. TBH I'm aspiring to mid fleet rather than the choccies. I have a slightly stretchable £1k to spend and I already have a Blaze. I've pretty much narrowed it down to a Giles Mk1 Supernova with a recent sail or another Blaze (wouldn't need a new sail for that as I already have one).
There are two or three 'novas at L&LSC though only one sailed regularly and no other Blazes. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
Posted By: Sam.Spoons
Date Posted: 17 Jun 17 at 1:29pm
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Well I've bought a Supernova, number 395, an old Giles built boat but she is structurally solid, only a little over (mk1) minimum weight and comes with a good Hartley/Jeckles (current version) sail, a second one in need of a panel replacement and a couple of serviceable (Hyde?) spares. Lots of small jobs to do to get her back up to race condition but nothing expensive or difficult...... and the price was right. ------------- Spice 346 "Flat Broke" Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |