Laser 2 spinnaker
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Technique
Forum Discription: 'How to' section for dinghy questions and answers
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12397
Printed Date: 08 Aug 25 at 9:29am
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Topic: Laser 2 spinnaker
Posted By: Riv
Subject: Laser 2 spinnaker
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 8:08am
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My spinnaker hoisting is slow due to friction. I've replaced all the cockpit blocks with ball bearing ones and might do the same with the mast sheeve. (already well lubricated) Halyard is 4mm.
I've used silicon spray on the chute mouth So the question is what next. The spinnaker has two patches, currently I rig them on the outside of the sail so the colours on the edge tapes match the side they are on. Would it work better with the down haul rigged on the inside of the sail? Should I not bother with the lower patch? Any ideas? |
Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 8:42am
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If its an old kite that has lost its crinkly finish and gets all soggy, sadly the best solution might be a new rag.
The mast sheave does tend to be the most critical one and the one that takes the worst beating. |
Posted By: Spike Boland
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 9:20am
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You must have down haul inside - if you have two patches. Make sure the halyard can move easily through bottom patch. I have just bought a new spinnaker (£360ish) and it has holes not patches so top half can be on inside and bottom half outside which worked well last WE but that was first outing. You need to stand up to hoist and drop quickly so tiller must be long enough to steer with legs. This works till waves big enough to dump you in then the crew does the drop and the high winds ensure plenty of adrenaline. ------------- Theres only one Spike Boland |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 10:04am
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You could also try spraying the whole kite with silicone. A £4 can is cheap to try. Test the blocks etc by taking the kite out of the loop, tie a bit of string between halyard and downhaul. It could be friction inside the mast. |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 10:05am
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There are several things that can increase the friction on the L2 spinny so without looking at how it's rigged and how you perform the hoist/drop it's difficult to say. As Spike says, the patches go on the inside, here's a list of possible issues. Rinse the salt (if you're on the sea) out of the halyard after each sail. What going on with the guy and sheet when you drop/hoist? Are you trying to drop and hoist on a slight reach? The halyard goes through two fairleads and then the cleat jaws on the cockpit floor before passing through the steel hoop which you pull against. You are pulling the rope over that hoop at 90 degrees which causes loads of friction so decent rope that isn't too stiff makes a big difference. Put a plastic parrel bead on the halyard between the first and second patch. This stops the knot at the top patch getting stuck in the loop at the bottom patch. Is the halyard free in the mast? IE not wrapped once around another halyard. This can happen so easily if it's been re-threaded at some time. If the spinny is old and absorbent (as Jim Says) it will be like dragging a dead body out of the shoot. Just a few thoughts. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 5:31pm
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Thanks, really good points, especially about putting the patches on the inside and and the parrel bead. Spinnaker has hardly been used. I'll check the halyard in the mast. I might be able to replace the cleat hoop with a small block I've taken off from below the mast.  |
Posted By: Chris415700
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 6:09pm
| Try threading the halyard through the lower patch, then through the bead, then tie a stopper knot about 250mm from the end of the halyard, then pass through the upper patch and tie another stopper knot. That way you will not be trying to pull both patches into the chute at the same time. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 6:55pm
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Thanks Chris , pulling both patches into the shute at the same time is what is happening, so I'll have a go with your idea as well.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 19 May 16 at 8:09pm
| Yeah, spacing the patches is a good idea. It might be worth laying out the kite on a flat surface and figuring out what a good location for the stopper would be with view to reducing bunching but still getting it down the chute properly. A bit of whipping round the halyard where the knot will go is handy for repeating the setting. A good kite will have the patches located for the spacing. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 20 May 16 at 9:33pm
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One boat I sailed on, the kite was a pig to retrieve if the ratchets were not switched off. Friction on the sheets can be as bad as the halyard. |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 21 May 16 at 9:58pm
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Yes, free running sheets make a really big difference as well, that brings me onto another question: I'd like to put stopper knots in the sheets to help set them roughly for the hoist. What is a good way of estimating their position? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 May 16 at 5:32pm
That sounds like something that could end in major tears! I kept meaning to have a bit of whipping sewn into the sheets to mark the critical point so I could have them cleated off in the right place for hoists, but stopper knots would make me extremely nervous! |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 22 May 16 at 6:15pm
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The L2 several times world champs used to put knots in the sheet/guy to do that very thing. We tried it, it can make pushing the pole out very difficult, particular the last couple of inches. For my light female crew it was impossible. If you've got a muscle bound crew you might be OK with it. Also: If there's an emergency (capsize maybe) it could make life tricky to sort out if you can't release the tension........But as I said, the technique has been used successfully by some. Give it a go, see how it goes.
In the end we settled for a knot in the mid point (between the cleats, center line of boat point) of the sheet/guy. This doesn't make the kite set on hoist but it does prevent too much sheet flying out when you get things slightly wrong. edit to answer your question. The knot needs to be able to let the pole go fully forward at the right height (without rubbing the forestay). Maybe set it on the beach, try it out and then adjust. |
Posted By: GarethT
Date Posted: 22 May 16 at 8:34pm
| Thinking back a couple of decades, we didn't run the halyard through the block at the back of the cockpit. I'm guessing that was to reduce friction. |
Posted By: Spike Boland
Date Posted: 23 May 16 at 3:43pm
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I'd like to put stopper knots in the sheets to help set them roughly for the hoist. What is a good way of estimating their position? I would say such knots are a total no, no, though stopper knots are really helpful around the boat, jib sheets, out haul etc.... If you are hoisting on a reach then have the crew ready with guy so they pull it round through cleat as the kite is hoisted (Only works on starboard). You can leave the sheet cleated and the spinnaker will fill and you are off and running. If windy you should release cleat so that crew has time to get on trapeze. On run pull the kite up any-time - as you will be standing up - then grap sheet and guy and control things until crew has put out the pole, secured the guy, let off kicker, raised board and passed round refreshments etc.... Cut spinny sheets to minimum length - ie so crew can still control spinnaker on a broad reach from the trapeze standing way back on side of the boat. This will stop unnecessary flogging and stop sheet going round end of boom which is not a good thing to happen. You can mark the sheets for a guide where to set guy. It is really important on a tight reach to get the pole just off forestay. However the exact position varies each day with wind strength, pole height, position of mast, amount of kicker you will have on etc.... so at a championships we would test it out each day and determine the the location for that day. It is not fun going down a mile long reach with your pole rapped around forestay (waiting for it to snap) and crew unable to come in without capsizing and it is brilliant to dive down and pile over the top of everybody struggling - so getting it right is really worthwhile. ------------- Theres only one Spike Boland |
Posted By: Riv
Date Posted: 23 May 16 at 9:10pm
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I think I might go for transient's idea about the knot in the centre of the sheet.......and be cautious. Interestingly I've got 15m of sheet and on the L2 site there was a reccomendation to use 13.4m so I may cut 25cm of everytime I go out and see how it goes. |