new sailor, new project
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Repair & maintenance
Forum Discription: Questions & tips on the subject
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12184
Printed Date: 10 Aug 25 at 8:46pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: new sailor, new project
Posted By: Tmay1991
Subject: new sailor, new project
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 12:44am
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Good evening all, the wife and I have decided to get ourselves into sailing and being some one who likes fixing things we have bought an older miracle, i believe it to be sail #705 so quite old. Unfortunately she has been a little neglected in the in the last few few years and also missing a few fittings and a few ropes. we plan to strip and re-varnish the decks and sand and repaint the hull over winter before getting ourselves into the water in spring. can anybody please recommend rope sizes for replacement main and jib halyards, main and jib sheets, kicking strap and Cunningham aswell as out haul and down haul for the main, as al of the above are long past their best or missing cheers chaps Tom
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Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 5:55am
| If ropes look like hell but aren't actually frayed or rotten, try chucking them through the washing machine. Amazing the difference it makes. |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 9:04am
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Halyards usually want to be as thin as you can bear to handle. This makes them run easier through the mast and sheaves.
Mainsheet and jib sheets used to be as thick as 10mm but these days many racing sailors prefer them thinner. Look at the size of the hole in the blocks (pulleys) they have to run through. Or rather, the size of the sheave. You might want to test a few old ropes in the cleats too, to make sure they are not too small (slip through) or large (don't fit in). Kicker, cunningham etc might also be limited by the small blocks they run through. There won't be an issue with strength as tiny ropes can take a heck of a lot. It's more about what you can grip comfortably, and what blocks/cleats you've already got. |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 9:16am
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On a Miracle there will be no need to venture above 4mm on halyards or control lines. Polyester will be fine for sail controls, but you will probably want a higher spec (Dyneema core) for the main halyard to stop the sail creeping down the mast. the jib halyard i would have thought should be wire, though maybe yours is a bit old for that? 8mm is fine for sheets, you would probably get away with 6mm on a miracle but i wouldn't go bigger or smaller. On a boat this old you will probably find that some of the fittings are past it too - be careful how much you spend here, hundreds of pounds fit into a surprisingly small jiffy bag!! keep an eye on ebay or Facebook for used bits, they come up frequently. Only buy decent stuff though.
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Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 10:24am
Kinda tricky to tell a knackered block from a good one on ebay isn't it? |
Posted By: Tmay1991
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 2:10pm
| The current halyards look like 2ply twisted nylon and have started to frey and have gone all hard, the sheaves look serviceable for now. On the main sheets there is currently only 2mm dynema attaching the clew and tack to the boom with a pair of clamcleats fitted either end, these look new but I don't trust the 2mm so was thinking of using 4mm at a minimum. Could anyone link me to some suitable dyneama for the halyards? Also what is the best way to stop the tack at the foot of the sail pulling away from the boom? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 3:35pm
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Think 2mm dyneema is rated at over 200kg, so that would be some sheetloads!
That would be three strand pre stretched terylene for the halyards, which was pretty much the best we could get at the beginning of the 70s. Really with most dinghy jobs and dyneema the limiting factor is how hard you can pull a thin rope (and whether the existing cleats will grip), you can almost ignore breaking strain as a factor. |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 5:57pm
Yes and no - its not that hard to tell a mid jurassic sea sure from a half decent harken one :p |
Posted By: Tmay1991
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 7:09pm
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finally got photo bucket to sort itself out so thought i would pop a few photos up of our little Miracle, a reasonable amount of work but nothing that is particularly scary, she has lasted this long so with some help hopefully she will do me and the wife a good number of years 
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Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 7:59pm
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If you haven't come across it already try the repairs and restoration section of cvrda.org (Classic and Vintage dinghy association). Lots of helpful info on repair and maintenance of wooden boats.
2mm dyneema easily capable of securing your main to boom: I use it on my Merlin to secure the outhaul. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 13 Oct 15 at 8:37pm
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Looks like Crawley Mariners? We must be neighbours.
I might be able to find some old cleats & bits if you are short. |
Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 14 Oct 15 at 7:11pm
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from the pics it looks like you do not have a highfield lever to hook the jib halyard on to (and generate rig tension) so if you want to keep it that way 4mm pre stretch would be fine, something with dyneema core will stretch a little less, if you fit a highfield, then the jib halyard will need to be wire and a decent chandler will make this up for you. For sheets 8mm would be fine, or thicker depending on what you want to hold on to. For the tack - this doesnt attach to the boom, but a short piece of line connected with a couple of inglefield clips around the mast and through the cringle in the tack keeps things tidy. for the clew - a length of 3mm pre stretch from the sail, around a block on the end of the boom and then inboard to a jammer on the boom would be all you need, do you have a track on the end of the boom? if so you can shackle the sail to a slider in this track. Kicker, the pics show a pulley system in situ, the only issue with this is that you might want to lead controls for this back to the thwart on either side for ease of use, I would probably make up a dyneema cascade (have a look on the Harken website for some diagrams of this. You will find that the round boom you have is very flexible, and so use of kicker is compromised, you may find a new superspars boom would be stiffer and more effective. cunninghams are not often used on the miracle (I only bother rigging mine when its properly blowing) ------------- |
Posted By: Tmay1991
Date Posted: 15 Oct 15 at 12:36pm
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His piglet, I picked the boat up from the CMYC and I plan on joining them in the new year, if you could pop round and give a little insight into getting the rigging into serviceable shape that would be most appreciated,
Tom |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 17 Oct 15 at 5:55pm
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Mailspeed is the best price for Evo race that I can find, though it doesn't state that it's the latest SK78 spec.
Jack sailing is 6p/m more but they do state it's SK78. tbh, SK78 spec won't make any difference on an old Miracle. No shipping with Mailspeed either! http://www.jack-sailing.co.uk/shop/4557406952/rs300-dinghy-rope---kingfisher-4mm-evolution-race-78---gottifredi-maffioli%C2%AE---dyneema%C2%AE/9527081 |
Posted By: Tmay1991
Date Posted: 12 Oct 17 at 1:31pm
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after a long while with various life crap getting in the way, the wife and i managed to get onto the business of sorting the old girl out, luckily we only found rot in the transom and duly replaced it, i also threw some extra fasteners into the decks as some of the old nails where lose in the ply. floors and bracing has received 4 coats of white marine epoxy pant with everything else being dosed with multiple coats of yacht varnish. stripping the huge number of coats of paint off the bottom of the hull was a complete nightmare but has meant that the boat has lost a lot of weight including random patches of filler that had been slapped on and painted over without fairing them in at all!! 
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Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 12 Oct 17 at 4:53pm
Doh, why waste perfectly good bonfire material, what with November 5th coming up soon?  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 12 Oct 17 at 6:05pm
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Pay no attention to teasings of the Kentish man, also note the smiling wink so at least he does acknowledge what demon little tool the Miracle is. For all the new rotomoulds of similar size that have came along the Miracle is still a delight to sail and handle ashore. |
Posted By: Tmay1991
Date Posted: 13 Oct 17 at 11:21am
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No offense taken, I fully understand some people's aversion to old wooden bandit boats, would still rather own something that looks half pretty than a plastic bath tub . I'm a tinkerer at heart and I get itchy unless there is some project to work on and the lack of maintenance required by modern boats doesn't grab me haha
Tom |