RS Vision/ Laser Bahia Vs Wayfarer/ Comet Trio
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12174
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 2:52am
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Topic: RS Vision/ Laser Bahia Vs Wayfarer/ Comet Trio
Posted By: Jamieg
Subject: RS Vision/ Laser Bahia Vs Wayfarer/ Comet Trio
Date Posted: 01 Oct 15 at 10:49pm
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I'm looking to buy a second hand Rs Vision or Laser Bahia. I want to be able to do a bit of Racing with a friend on a Lake but also to do some coastal day trips with family/friends up to 4 adults & one child maximum. Very interested to hear people's opinions on both boats. Thank you.
------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Replies:
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 01 Oct 15 at 11:12pm
| Firing squad or electric chair?? |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 01 Oct 15 at 11:50pm
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my first impression when i saw the title was neither. The issue you've got is cruising and racing are like complete opposites Personally I think the vision is a very well sorted boat for the most part and easy to maintain, although you will have to do lots of it! No experience with the Bahia, but looking at the other laser boats and a quick picture on google, it will probably be, to put it bluntly, complete sh*t! Other considerations are needed though, both boats will weigh a ton on the beach and be a pain to get back up-right when you capsize. So, are you heavy enough as a pair? Do you have beach winches? How young and fit are you?(even pulling it down the beach is bloody hard work) there's no boat that will meet both criteria nicely so choose which is your priority and decide if you should try looking at other boats instead EDIT: Laser 2000 came to mind, heavier/not as much space but it seems to race OK, and its got a bandit handicap so you can trophy hunt (and you don't even need to hike out or try!) although getting this one on a budget is harder And they're pretty bullet proof, can let them sail down slip ways and all sorts with no real damage
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Posted By: NickM
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 9:35am
| Stratos? See the other similar thread on here. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 9:47am
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The Bahia felt like a bouncy castle when sailing, it was so lacking in stiffness. Vision not as bad, and I know people who own them and enjoy them, but they tend to just go out for a Sunday afternoon Potter. More space in the Vision, I'd say, but still going to be crowded with 5 on board. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 10:29am
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I sail at Whitefriars I basically want a boat that I can do a bit of racing in try & keep up with the Lady's in their Wayfarer & take down to the coast with my wife she isn't a sailer & maybe take my Sister & Neice out in. I have thought of going for a Laser 2000 to do more racing rather than cruising but would like to do abit of both but won't be taking the racing to seriously. Also needs to be comfortable because of my back. Which is why I thought of the Vision Bahia a fast cruiser with a high boom. I did look at the Stravos but think it is just to heavy.
------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 11:00am
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If you've got back issues probably trying to pull around a close to 200kg boat is the biggest thing to look at Stuck for ideas now |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 11:28am
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We have been sailing the club Comet trio & have managed that fine. I am young ish strong with good core strength. I avoid lifting etc. I struggle more with sitting due to sciatica. Their is also normally people around which could help and the slipways are good at the club. I find sailing helps my back by keeping me morning etc.
------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 11:37am
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The Vision is the worst boat I have sailed to date, and I have sailed a lot of classes. High sheet loads, high helm loads (and yes, the blade was right down). We had two as club boats but they have gone in favour of a Hartley Wayfarer (quicker, easier, nicer and more roomy) and a Laser 2000 (because we have a fleet at our club). One other issue we had with the club boats, was that when things pull out of a rotomoulded hull like the Visions, they are more difficult to repair than on a GRP or wooden boat. No experience of the Bahia, but I suspect it is in the same league as the Vision, as the above comments seem to imply. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 4:34pm
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I really don't get why any private individual would ever buy a boat like a Vison, Omega or Bahia. They are ideal for sailing schools as they can throw them away as life expired after 5 years - which they often are. And that is the problem. The material they are moulded out of is worse even than the old school single skin GRP used in the bad old days and whats worse still? You can't fix it properly, if at all should you get any damage. You can buy a new training specification GP14 starting at around £5000 on one website. That is an infinitely better boat than ANY rotomoulded jellyfish. You could even get one for £600 and it would still be a better boat and investment. Please, please leave the jellymoulds to the sailing centres and buy a proper boat to sail yourself.
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Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 4:50pm
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I will have a look on Apollo Duck now & see what their like thanks for the input. ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 4:55pm
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The marketing giants try to justify their new boats as being modern and fresh designs. There are very good reasons why the old 70's Proctor and Holt multi-purpose boats still have a big following. They are right, and sail well. Just because a design is old doesn't mean it's rubbish. New takes on older designs are making a big comeback as training boats.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 5:00pm
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Hi Jamie,
Didn't realise it was you! For Whitefriars, the slow asymmetric rotomoulds are the worst of all the boats you could get. Heavy, but as has been said, not actually that strong, in that fittings start to pull out. An asymmetric spinnaker works well on a fast boat where you can go fast enough to make up the extra distance sailed when not able to actually aim for the mark, but the sailing school buses simply aren't fast enough to make it work. If you want to give Jenny and Wolly a run for their money, then get a Wayfarer too. It still does the job better than any other big boat on a small pond. And you can always get a trolley with a jockey wheel and use the winch! I'm happy to teach you how to use a symmetric kite if you need help. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 5:04pm
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I did see the new Wayfarer at the boat show last month & really liked the look of it. My Dad used to have one when I was little. I haven't done much with the symmetric spinnaker's which is the main thing that puts me off the older style boats as they look much more difficult to hoist etc than the asymmetric.
------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 5:09pm
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Thanks Rupert I was writing my last post when you posted yours. I will take you up on that a Symmetric kite lesson. Are they much slower to hoist that the asymmetric? ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 7:02pm
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Certainly slower than an assy for a beginner, but with practice, the process can be pretty quick, and once up, you have a much wider choice of angles to sail. I'd think Jenny would be happy for you to have a go in hers at some point. Maybe see if she needs a crew at some point? ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 7:05pm
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Would you pick a Wayfarer over a Comet Trio ? ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 7:11pm
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Yes! The Trio isn't bad, but it is more money for less boat. Mind, you can carry the kite really close to the wind, and even tack with it up on the Trio, so there is a bunus there. With the club having a hire Trio, you can get plenty of sailing time on it to see what you think in different wind strengths and racing/cruising. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 7:32pm
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Vision/Bahia/Quba/Quest vs Wayfarer/Albacore/Enterprise/Firefly
Modern Jellymould vs Classic tank? Where does the Sport14 sit? |
Posted By: ClubRacer
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 7:56pm
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As long as it comes with the authentic milk bottle mast float  |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 8:24pm
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Or if you want a really big boat, the sport16, though I've only ever seen them at sailing schools, looking knackered. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 02 Oct 15 at 11:26pm
I do really like the Trio. My thinking is that it is lighter than the Wayfarer & a fair bit roomier as well plus with their being 3-4 club trios might get some match racing from time to time. But the price maybe a issue. Their is a cheap one on Apollo Duck at the moment but is a bit of a drive. The weight of the Wayfarer puts me off a bit. Not sure bout the Sport 14 not seen them before other than the pics on a google I just looked at. ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Paramedic
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 8:29am
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Wasn't the Sport 14 the Cruz but with a proper rig? It probably suffered from Topper's fall from grace, and the sort of people it was aimed at could buy a GP14 for £1000 that would do the job just as well. Again, sailing centres bought them, but the jellymoulds have now superseded them. Could be a good buy at the right price to be fair.
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Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 8:31am
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I have an Albacore for a similar purpose. Perhaps a bit more racing orientated, but plenty of space and a nice all rounder. I did the the Barts Bash a few weeks ago with my other half and triplet daughters as crew. Started very late, but were not far off the pace.
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Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 9:33am
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I've also raced the Alb with the whole family on board, but it would be too crowded with more than 3 adults, I think.
There are advantages to boats with no foredeck, like the Trio, in that you can bung the kid up in the bows, Swallows and Amazon's style. I even teach from up there before sending pupils off on their own. I think RS missed a trick bunging a foredeck on the Venture for that reason. But from a pure sailing point of view, I still like the Wayfarer more than the Trio. That is very subjective, though, and a Trio is certainly more fun than a Bahia! If you are in no hurry, it is possible that some changes might happen to the training fleet at WSC, meaning a Trio might become available locally. No idea on timescale for that, but might be worth asking Tim at some point. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 9:54am
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I'm not in a massive rush. I thought I would be able to get a better deal in the winter when not as many people would be buying boats. This thread has defiantly given me lots to think about & a complete turn around away from the "jellymoulds" I think I need to have a go with a symmetric spinnaker & see want it's like getting a wayfarer out & moving it around at the club then decide where I go from there. Thanks very much for everyone's in put so far. ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 9:56am
| Years ago at our Club we had a family with a Wanderer. It seemed quite a practical proposition back then....people carrier but relatively easy to move on land. It also sailed quite nicely too. What became of them? |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 10:00am
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There are at least 3 at Whitefriars they just look like baby Wayfarer's & quite small ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 03 Oct 15 at 10:14am
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More space inside than most 14 foot boats, and quite nice to sail, but if you are worried that the Wayfarer doesn't have enough passenger space, then maybe it would be too small. Several at the club, so easy enough to get a go in one, though. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 04 Oct 15 at 7:44am
| There's a few privately owned Sport 14's at Bough Beech, they seem alright, are they lighter than a Wayfarer? |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 04 Oct 15 at 11:18am
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Thought I would rename this thread as it has become a Jellymoulds vs The Classics ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 05 Oct 15 at 1:55pm
| The Wayfarer has the big advantage of holding its value and the Wayfarer Association have some family focused events such as the Wayfarer Week at Ullswater. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 06 Oct 15 at 6:15pm
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I'm having a bit of trouble with the Trio as a classic... it is actually quite a modern boat compared to the Wayfarer. It does show in in terms of layout, but the assy is a bit of a bolt on, and the rest of the rig is actually rather less developed than the Wayfarer. Mind, despite the look of the Bahia and Vision rigs, they are also very crude compared to a modern, racing Wayfarer.
The telegraph pole mast is one of the main reasons I'd struggle to enjoy owning a Trio. Reefing comes early because you can't really deposed. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 06 Oct 15 at 6:22pm
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I'd love a MK IV but it's a bit out of my price range. I've been looking at a nice MK II might call later to inquire. ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 06 Oct 15 at 6:42pm
I got ruin of the Classic heading just for you Rupert  ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 10 Oct 15 at 11:59am
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I have just bought a Wayfarer Mark II. Looking forward to my First Sail in her tomorrow. Rupert if you are around at the club tomorrow would love a hand to rig the kite. Thanks for all the input everyone will let you know how I get on. Bit of a trip down memory lane as my Dad had one when I was growing up. ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 4:11pm
| A wise choice, much better than a plastic milk bottle. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 11 Oct 15 at 5:56pm
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Looks good! Hope you found all the bits and got on the water. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Jamieg
Date Posted: 19 Oct 15 at 10:01am
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The boat is spot on really happy with it had a couple of small repairs to do on her mainly fittings. I have had her out on the water twice & was really nice sail. Will hopefully be trying out the kite this weekend. ------------- Laser 30668, Wayfarer 9281 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 19 Oct 15 at 1:55pm
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Good to hear. At last, a satisfied customer on the forum! ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |