kite tugging
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1200
Printed Date: 15 Aug 25 at 2:30am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: kite tugging
Posted By: Wave Rider
Subject: kite tugging
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 7:41am
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Hi, when we hve the kite up on our boat, we often find that the kite tugs it so the helm is often trying to head back up and the kite tugs you back again, I havent owned an asymmetric dinghy before (sailed a lot) so i this normal and does it mean we should be bearing away anyway and its the kites idea of making us do it??? Or do we need a longer rudder blade? sorry if this is simple and i sound a twat ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Replies:
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 8:03am
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You mean you have lee helm? How flat are you keeping the boat? ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: Adds
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 9:06am
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You always get a certain amount of lee helm on all asy's as the centre of effort of the kite is a long way forward of the centre of effort of the boat. ------------- Cheers Dudes |
Posted By: Iain C
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 9:27am
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Does'nt help when the boat is so short too! You could take a leaf out of the 12's book and sail it a bit on it's ear but that may be s-l-o-w... ------------- RS700 GBR922 "Wirespeed" Fireball GBR14474 "Eleven Parsecs" Enterprise GBR21970 Bavaria 32 GBR4755L "Adastra" |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 9:59am
| If you're really fighting lee helm then you're probably too shy. Might be quicker to drop the kite if you have to make a mark. A moderate amount is normal shy reaching in lighter conditions. |
Posted By: Shingle
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 11:05am
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If this is your first experience of asymmetric dinghies, you could do a lot worse than put the 'Higher and Faster' DVD on you christmas list. It get's abit serious but the principals are there for the novice aswell. ------------- Drink Feck girls! |
Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 11:59am
Sounds like you are trying to carry the kite too high ... Once the breeze is up you will just follow the kite; what class is it? ------------- |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 1:02pm
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Like Rick says - any wind and you follow the kite. Even in lighter breezes when you're trying to make a mark, you can't go too high as if you do, the foils can stall / lose grip, and you just start slipping sideways. Better to bear away ain gusts and to come back onto wind when foils are working - the bear away then come up course will be faster than 'stuffing' all the way. Also be sure to sheet your main right in - this helps balance the kite and aids flow thro the slot. |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 3:24pm
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Ok cheers thats very helpful, i did think it may be heading too high on the reaches, ok i will remebeer to follow the kite in the future!!!! By the way the boat is a cherub so yes it could be that a fairly big kite with small foils and not much length. Thanks ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: Strawberry
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 7:28pm
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I find the biggest cause of lee helm is that you don't have the main sheeted
tight enough. The main should be right in, as your sailing on apparent wind rather than true wind. Once you get really skillfull you can steer downwind using solely the main, sheet in to head up, and sheet off to bear away. (I haven't mastered it yet) This is a very fast technique, and "feels" loads more "natural" to sheet in when you heel to windward, and sheet out when you heel to leeward. You shouldn't be having problems pointing high, I can get onto a beam reach in Strawberry, and that's with a huouge and seriously deep kite! ------------- Cherub 2649 "Dangerous Strawberry |
Posted By: redback
Date Posted: 17 Nov 05 at 10:02pm
| I'm surprised others haven't mentioned it but if the crew is oversheeting the kite it causes quite a lot of leehelm. Get your crew to keep the kite "on the curl" which requires a repetitive ease and tighten motion. You'll notice the boat accelerate away if the kite's eased from an oversheeted setting. |
Posted By: Wave Rider
Date Posted: 18 Nov 05 at 5:38pm
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Cheers, but yeah i know the hole luff curl stuff ------------- -[Franko]- Chew Valley Lake Sailing Club RS600 933 |
Posted By: I luv Wight
Date Posted: 18 Nov 05 at 7:46pm
| put tell tales on the luff - then the helm can back the call of 'let it OUT!' with evidence ! ( instead of the dead, can't steer, lee helm, going slow feel of invisible oversheeting ) |
Posted By: Ian99
Date Posted: 18 Nov 05 at 7:48pm
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If you want to learn how to sail downwind properly, and you've got lots
of space, try sailing without a rudder. If you fix the rudder with rope
so it is permanently in the middle and just steer the boat using the
sails and boat balance / trim. I'll have to admit never trying this in a Cherub! but have done it using both asymmetric and conventional spinnakers with the crew out on the wire. Believe it or not, the asymmetric was a laser stratos in a force 4-5!  The conventional spinnaker (Fireball) was during in a race - halfway down a flat out reach to the finish, I noticed the rudder had gone a bit light but just put it down to cavitation so concentrated on steering the thing using the sails. It was only after the finish when we capsized out of control I realised that the rudder was no longer on its pintles and was just floating on the surface dragging behind! Once you'e been blasting around without the rudder for a few hours, you'll wonder why people bother using them......... |
Posted By: Sumo
Date Posted: 18 Nov 05 at 7:58pm
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Tried this in a 59er fine going up wind, but very comical going downwind with the kite up, a moments inattention, a little bit of heel and its away followed by some swimming practice, but great fun !! |
Posted By: jpbuzz591
Date Posted: 18 Nov 05 at 9:42pm
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Sailing without a rudder is quite easy once you've got the hang of it, and yeah i agree, why do u need one? i suppose they r quite useful, but havent tried sailing rudderless with a spinni. been told the spinni acts just a giant jib, so sheet in to bear away, etc. ------------- Jp Indoe Contender 518 Buzz591 Chew Valley Sailing club Bristol |
Posted By: Chris Noble
Date Posted: 19 Nov 05 at 11:51am
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Linton Jenkins has taken this idea a bit further his argument now is that for foiling moths you dont need an aft trim tab, and that i can be done just be moving your body to shift the weight, having read rohans logs and stuff, this will require some serious fitness trainin as foiling at the best of times can be very very pressing. ------------- http://www.noblemarine.co.uk/home.php3?affid=561 - Competitive Boat Insurance From Noble Marine FOR SALE: I14 2 Masts 2 poles 3 Booms, Foils Kites/Mains/Jibs too many to list. |