Which single hander
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11605
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 4:36am
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Topic: Which single hander
Posted By: PATRICKCR
Subject: Which single hander
Date Posted: 17 Aug 14 at 11:49am
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Hello all, I am looking for some advice please Ladies and Gentlemen, I have just passed the staggering, nay dare I say admiralesque like, RYA 1 & 2 course and I'm ready to try my hand at a solo circumnavigation .....of an inland lake( probably Burghfield / Reading sailing clubs)...and now I need to look for a boat....which I'm finding rather tricky. I have done a lot of windsurfing / kite surfing, a little crewing on yachts , like speed, I have no fear of getting wet...and my aim to become as technically proficient a sailor as I can, so I will enter a club race scene as well, to improve my skills. For know I think trapeze sailing is at least a season away while I hone my abilities , but I'm happy to try asymmetric spinnaker boats as well. My priorities are ..
I don't mind if it is a classic / modern boat / rotomoulded / wood / etc all suggestions welcome. On my list at the moment is the RS Vareo / Lazer Vago / Supernova. I would appreciate your opinions / suggestions please Patrick
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Replies:
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 17 Aug 14 at 12:20pm
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Get a Laser, learn everything you can from it and those around you- sell it in two years for what you paid for it and buy a D-Zero or a Blaze ;-) ------------- |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 17 Aug 14 at 12:59pm
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Try a Blaze or Halo at Burghfield. Ask to have Mike Lyons pointed out to you. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 17 Aug 14 at 3:43pm
Good advice, the Blaze is relatively benign unless the wind is blowing (but hard to master) and there is (or was) a good fleet of them at Burghfield. Mike Lyons (aka Blaze720 on this forum) is Mt Blaze and he is the current builder of the boat too. I am sure he will discover this thread soon enough. ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 17 Aug 14 at 4:54pm
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Rather than rushing in and buying something, talk to some of the people who sail singlehanders at your club and ask if you can have a go in their boat - most will be happy to help if you choose the right time ie not just as they are launching for a vital race. Also see them actually sailing their boat and choose the one that can actually sail a good race rather than talk a good race.
If you have lower back issues then I would have thought that a Laser was the last boat to get as you will not be able to hike hard upwind. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: Assassin
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 5:40am
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Currently, how could anyone go past the new RSAero. Modern, lightweight and good value for money. Cheers.
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Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 9:30am
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kneewrecker, Medway Maniac, ,jeffers ,Time Lord and Assassin ..thank you for taking the time to respond. Yesterday I went back to both Reading Sailing Club near Sonning and Burghfield to check out what was happening ..and managed to poke my nose aound some boats. Quite a friendly bunch in both clubs :) Conclusions I 'm coming to ... 1. The laser seems to be the default single hander class, and I got a sit in tour yesterday but I found the boom just too low for me.... I really don't think I would enjoy sailing it for very long, which is a real shame because I know I could learn a lot from that class. Unless I am missing something about the rig? 2. Wood boats seem to be a bit of a Russian roulette / more maintenance consuming I will definitively start looking into the blaze, and get in touch with Mike Lyons - hopefully he wont mind me picking his brains. I have googled the aero ..looks fab but that appears to be out of my price range as I need to be on the water for 3k or under.... Ive also been told by a few people now to only go for a double hander if 'm going to sail two up and expect to swap boats frequently as skill and preferences develop( spinnaker / no spinnaker / hike / trapeze etc etc ) Any thoughts on the Vareo // Supernova / RS100(probably struggle to get that in my budget) ? cheers Patrick |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 11:08am
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Vareo / Supernova / RS100, all singelehanders, of course, and all for my money less attractive than a Blaze/Halo, although I've only seen Supernovas from afar. The other boats with kites could be a bit of a pain if you are sailing tight inland club courses. I've come across the dual purpose single + doublehander class question a few times now, and very few boats are really good for both. The exception for your 90kg is the Miracle, which is a cracking little boat. Surprisingly roomy, lightweight and feels quick even if it isn't especially! You will struggle to find a GRP one, though. But yes, speak to Mike Lyons - who won't mind at all - and take it from there. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: NeilB-Phantom
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 12:43pm
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Cant understand your problem with the boom height on a laser. I'm 6ft 5in and a not as flexible as I once was 52 years old and was sailing a laser no problem in F2 -F4 on holiday and winning most of the races. Definitely a good class to learn to race in, even if the controls are a bit primitive. ------------- Phantom 1384 Dazcat D995 |
Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 1:38pm
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I'll add the miracle to the list to take a look at. :) Thanks Medway- Maniac NeilB - I think the laser class obviously has a good following and would be great fun, but for me the problem is not my height - I'm 5' 9 ....problem is a severe crush injury many years ago left me with damaged nerves ... . ...luckily I'm mostly repaired except for movements like very low ducking / low rotational torso movements ... repeating that too often ends up with lots of pain....so I'm trying to avoid the issue , I want to enjoy the learning experience :) ...Maybe dinghy sailing is not the best sport for that ...but too late Im hooked...The laser I had a tour of on Sunday seemed very low to me ...mind you I am comparing that to a Topper Argo / xenon...those I had no issue with. The primitive controls doesn't bother me at all , I don't expect I'll be keeping any boat I buy for more than a year or two anyway. Patrick |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 1:56pm
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Hi Patrick, Sounds like the Supernova ought to be etching higher up your list then- it has a high boom and a reasonable freeboard for a singlehander. It's not the 'coolest' boat on your list, but it just might be the one that offers you the most fun, and fun in comfort. I'd avoid the Vareo and 100 though- they are spinnakered boats, they probably won't be well catered for at the clubs you are looking at (windward / leeward racing) and they offer zero respite from hiking. A conventional unarig will at least let you rest your back downwind- try to avoid unarigs which promote a lot of crouching in the bottom when sailing downwind- the one that springs to mind here is the Phantom. At 95kg you are bang on the right weight for one inland, but it's a highly physical and involves some discomfort downwind kneeling in the bottom of the boat. Look for a boat which enables you to perch gracefully on the side- the Supernova is ideal for gentlemen's perching! At 95kg you'll have more than enough righting moment to get the best out of it too. Have fun, Jimbo ------------- |
Posted By: fleaberto
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 4:48pm
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If the clubs you mentioned allow them, how about a cat? .... I had a Dart 15 once and loved it. Fast, stable and if you get one with the full 'sport' kit you'll get trapeze and furling jib to use as your skill levels climb - and no boom.
A fairly late number Supernova has a good amount of adjustability in terms of raking mast etc and would be a good shout I reckon...or a phantom? ------------- Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays' |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 6:14pm
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Phantom has a lowish boom which is a nono with your back problem and as said above there is a tendency for the helm to kneel downwind - this would do my back.
Think about seeing if anyone at either of the clubs is looking for a crew as a starter but avoid heavy boats eg GP14/Wayfarer as your back will not appreciate hauling up slipway. I sail a Merlin for this same reason and so that I can stretch out my legs rather than have to sit with legs curled up as is the case in sit upon boats. Does either club have club boats you can loan/hire? ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: RichTea
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 8:34pm
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Locally I think Cats are only possible at Datchet. To add another boat into the mix, what about an RS Q'ba. Its a plastic boat but has a deep cockpit. The issue with your initial request, there is no decent single and/or double hander available. I sail just inside the M25, we have a number of club boats available, that may be a better way to try thing out. ------------- RS200 |
Posted By: SUGmeister
Date Posted: 18 Aug 14 at 10:31pm
Think the K1 has a pretty deep cockpit... ------------- Simon SUGmeister I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me. |
Posted By: NickA
Date Posted: 19 Aug 14 at 8:25pm
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K-1 = newish design of boat => >3k£
The supernova class is growing a-pace; I was in the maker (Hartley)'s boat shed the other day and they are cranking them out against a waiting list. Also the new Mk 2s being lighter and nicer, the original Mk 1s are presumably at a good price .... but do check the side decks (the bit you sit on) for solidity as some of the original boats have cracked and sagged under their owners' rears. Seems like a good boat as less powerful and cheaper than a Phantom and so much nicer than a Laser ... and SO much more fun than a Solo. PS: my single hander of choice, (with the original intent of double AND single handing it, at a weight of 80kg), is a V3000 as owned by Mr Medway himself ... but I think he disapproves of my frequent lack of crew ;¬). There are plenty of Laser 3000s around for under £3k which are the same but slower; more fun than a miracle and more double hander friendly than any pure single hander; however, you need to trapeze to make the most of it, which does save your back, and there isn't much space inside if you don't trapeze. ------------- Javelin 558 Contender 2574 |
Posted By: Assassin
Date Posted: 20 Aug 14 at 11:57am
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Well done on your research. I have sailed the Laser for over 30 years all around the World and it has been brilliant but am constantly looking for a replacement. The world finally has one now with the Aero but I understand your price dilemma. I can't wait to get my new one. I agree with you regarding the boom on the laser, for the un- initiated, it can be extremely scary to get stuck under it during a tack and subsequent capsize. However there is a quick fix and is becoming popular here in AUS. Simple have the foot recut trimming 8 inches (200mm) off the clew. It hardly effects performance unless you plan to race at a high level and it makes the boat very user friendly in all sailing maneuvers. Very comforting during those gybes knowing the boom and your head has a little more clearance. You then have a price friendly pile of fun. Good luck. Cheers.
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 20 Aug 14 at 12:06pm
That sounds interesting, you could also try this with a standard rig.... you need to make sure your cunningham has a long enough tail (and outhaul too, if using XD kit)  http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=2737&Category_Code=r81&SortBy=" rel="nofollow - http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=2737&Category_Code=r81&SortBy= ------------- |
Posted By: PATRICKCR
Date Posted: 20 Aug 14 at 2:47pm
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Hi All, Thanks for the further advice , I definitely feel posting here has been really helpful. Interesting about the phantom TimeLord ..one of the guys at work has one on a trolley parked outside his house and has offered to give me a tour... so will pay attention to that when he shows me later this week. I started investigating the rental idea as well and I now have two sessions booked up on some topaz's which will give me exposure to yet another boat and get me in the water....I'll continue to rent sessions until I find a boat to make sure I don't lose what I've just learnt...it isn't expensive either. Love the idea of a keeled dinghy ...that could be great fun but even the second hand ones on apolloduck are apprx. 6K :( There are also supernovas around 1500 upwards , I've read there isn't a great deal of difference between the MK1 and MK2 so I will try to get a boat in good condition with good sails ...I'm sure I don't have the skill yet to exploit any benefit a newer boat would bring so I'm not fussed about getting the latest boat just for the sake of it. And actually re-cutting the clew on a laser could be a solution so I will get an idea of costs for that as well. Patrick |
Posted By: ajbaldwin
Date Posted: 20 Aug 14 at 3:56pm
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I was in the same position as you a couple of years ago and went for the second hand Vareo which does have the sloping boom etc and it a blast down wind with the Assy. I also found it to be a pretty forgiving boat and has helped my sailing. My one criticism is that it is quite hard work up wind and you do need to hike quite hard one to consider ------------- Yorkshire Dales SC Vareo 505 |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 29 Aug 14 at 11:00pm
| Low booms are technique rather than athletic ability. Lasers are a good cheap boat to start off with |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 30 Aug 14 at 4:41am
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If you've only just done Level 2 with no accumulation of experience then you want something relatively simple that doesn't need too much thought in terms of just getting out there, staying upright and having fun. I would say the stand out choices are a phantom or a megabyte. Both good for your weight, even in light winds, both as simple or complex as you want them to be. Phantoms are relatively easy to get hold in your price range. There is a megabyte for sale up in Scotland. If you want to try one before you commit to that trek, come and try mine at Hunts SC. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 30 Aug 14 at 10:35am
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RS Vareo seem to be about at reasonable costs. Appear to have not really taken off as a racing class but a very nice boat for having a lot of relatively easy fun in. Very high static stability, sensible sail area, room for an extra little one in the cockpit and kite to play with off wind as experience is gained. Pretty much does what RS said it would when they launched it apart perhaps for the racing bit.
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Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 30 Aug 14 at 12:43pm
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They didn't really expect it to be taken forward as a serious racing class- otherwise it would have been called the 'RS100' long before the 100 came about. Oddly enough, despite some negative ownership experiences of them in the past, I've thought about them a bit more positively of late- but then I don't want a serious racing dinghy these days, quite the contrary in fact. And for a couple of grand they are a LOT more fun than a Laser- especially with a little one onboard. ------------- |
Posted By: ajbaldwin
Date Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 1:50pm
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I really like mine and they are stable. Has a couple of moments with the kite at the weekend in a club race where I tried to sail it on to tight a leg. Most other boats would have had me swimming but it happily sailed on its ear with kite in water as I sorted myself out. In terms of racing there are a few at the club but they are similar to a RS200 on PY so If I beat them then I am happy enough. They are a blast down wind and you can get a good one for under 2k ------------- Yorkshire Dales SC Vareo 505 |
Posted By: Bertie708
Date Posted: 01 Sep 14 at 9:09pm
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Try various boats and clubs in the area, it might be worth travelling to look at the solo and other boats at Maidenhead SC, which is only a few miles down the M4 from Burghfield See what you can get into and try this side of the winter and then in the new year consider buying a boat. |