New Dinghy but what. Help.
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11496
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 6:27am
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Topic: New Dinghy but what. Help.
Posted By: canoeslicer
Subject: New Dinghy but what. Help.
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 9:20am
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Morning Gentleman,
I've just joined as I'm looking for people's thoughts and some help. I am looking for something to take my not very confident wife out in and teach her to sail. I currently have a Dart Hawk myself and she won't go near it as she doesn't like the look of the wire on the fact that you're always perched on it. So I'm looking for a hiking boat strangely enough she doesn't mind the look of wings or racks and has to have some good performance or she'll get board quick. Not really that difficult to find something given that criteria but what is stumping me is she wants something that's safe for us to take the little one out on. Thanks in advance. Canoeslicer. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Replies:
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 10:59am
| What other classes are sailed at your club? |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 11:33am
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RS400? ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 11:49am
sailed one? Not for the feint hearted mate.... it's a powerful boat, a lovely one at that. ------------- |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 12:10pm
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I'm lucky that I have 2 clubs within 15 miles of me. The closest is on the sea and the other a big emergency cooling pond. Between the 2 of them there is everything from mirrors, 505, osprey, b14, rs200, rs 400, 420, laser 2 to 49er and a load of cats mostly dart 18.
I'm 15 stone the other half is around 9.5. I'd thought about rs 400 but what do people think about the open transom and a little one? ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 12:21pm
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How little is the little one....? I'd rather go for something like a Graduate, or even the Laser 2000 if I was looking to take out one of my daughters in a dinghy. Even then, I feel far more confident with lead underneath me when I sail with a novice wife and children. Laser Stratos? RS Venture maybe? ------------- |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 12:24pm
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2000 or a Wayfarer? Ladies seem to take to those classes in my experience. They're mostly not looking to prove anything, unlike we males. They're both actually quite nice to helm. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: RichTea
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 12:31pm
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2000 would be my shout. The cheaper ones would still be in reasonable condition. For info, any Yellow hulled boat would of originated in a sailing center somewhere. ------------- RS200 |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 12:44pm
Yes, my chum/work colleague has one, sails it with his wife and I've noticed other man woman partnerships work well in it, I didn't think it was that difficult, it's a bit heavy lumbering it about but then most boats are too bloody heavy as we all know. The OP did say she might get bored and Dave sails his with his Mrs, and if he gets his daughter up front they can beat us in the Alto at times. (She's a windsurfer so has natural feel for the kite.). So I stand by my recommendation quickest way to put folk off is to terminally bore them with something like a laser 2000 or that Vision God help them.. RS400 and get that kite up, she'll love it. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 1:30pm
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Women tend to get a lot out of the social aspects of sailing so I would therefore pick the largest fleet at your club as then sailing will be more social. I agree that a fast exciting boat may get her smiling but if you want her to sail regularly then pick a class of boat with the greatest number of like minded sailors....
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Posted By: gordon1277
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 1:53pm
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Agree RS400 good boat for your requirement but, you really must become very confident in it before you let her anywhere near it. They are nothing like as stable as a dart, I know stating the obvious but having major wobbles and falling over will not make her happy. ------------- Gordon Lossc |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 2:19pm
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Admittedly I've only sailed them in Minorca, i.e. without body armour, but we found we were getting quite beaten up by the RS400. There seemed to be lots of hard objects we kept bumping into, collecting bruises. The 2k was bliss by comparison in that respect. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 4:14pm
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I hadn't thought of a laser 2000 will have a look at one of those. What's the performance of a laser 2000 like compared to a rs 400 or similar as I've seen those out.
She is also the kind of girl that would rather struggle for a month or three and have the potential of high performance, than be comfortable after 4 or 5 outings in something much easier and slower. The little one is 6 years old, can swim and has just started in an opi floating between 2 people 40 feet apart. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 4:18pm
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slower, duller, more stable and infinitely more comfortable.... you can also fit a trap to it for sh*ts and giggles, although I don't think this is 'class legal'. It's a great boat, if a tad heavy, but essentially a good family racer/cruiser. ------------- |
Posted By: ChrisB14
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 4:22pm
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With exception of The Little One, our requirements were very similar to yours and ended us up with a B14. Fun boat :-) But clearly that isn't a boat you would want to pack a small child onto, but I that will be true for the RS 400 as well. I would also expect it to be true for any boat rightfully carrying the attribute "high performance".
------------- B14 GBR 748 Bullet B In build: Farr 3.7 GBR 410 (both sail number and the current number of loose parts) |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 4:23pm
Then maybe it should be the 400 after all. But wear a wetsuit! The 2k is, as kneewrecker says, appreciably slower/less powerful. Ideally, I guess, you'd try both. I'm not sure the speed difference is that apparent until you start comparing with boats alongside you. Most clubs will have them sailing in different fleets, sailing different courses, so that's something else to consider. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 5:04pm
I really like the look of the B14 always have, I'd love one but will have to wait as no good for the little one. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: jaydub
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 6:43pm
| I'd go for the RS400. At 24.5 stone you will be very big for a 2000. The 400 is powerful but actually reasonably well mannered. As others have said, get a trial sail first. |
Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 9:22pm
| With similar requirements I ended up with an Albacore. So far so good, however I have 3 little-uns so waiting until they can swim before I take them out. |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 9:22pm
That's a very good point. What's there stability like compared with say a 420 or laser 3000 as I've said both those a lot until I got the Dart Hawk. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 29 May 14 at 11:59pm
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Interesting comparison, the 420 & 3000. The 420 feels initially less stable than the 3k, but it will hang on longer before capsizing. Thus I capsized my 420 once in three years, and when I got a Laser 2 (=3k) I thought it was much more stable, yet I capsized appreciably more often!
I’d say the 400 is more akin to the 420 than the 3k, in that it will hang on when it heels, but because of its size it is a less fidgety than the 420. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 8:29am
| Beware teaching your own spouse/children to sail. Especially not in a race. It can all backfire and they end up hating it if you so much as raise your voice above a whisper. There must not be a single moment of urgency! |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 9:17am
Agree with that 100% ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 9:36am
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Agree with that to.
Not teaching the little one the instructors in the club are, as he is just like me at that age will listen to them but argue with me. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 9:40am
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Thought it maybe more like the 420 as they both have a more rounded hull than say a 3000.
Would people class the rs400 as more or less stable than the 420? ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: Wee Man
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 10:26am
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I race an F18 and have a 420 to race / fun sail with family or friends. I find the 420 to be very stable and forgiving but a bit sluggish in light wind, it's great fun when it picks up a bit. With the trapeze and kite it offers plenty to keep crew occupied and lots of learning. ------------- Nacra Infusion F18 |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 30 May 14 at 10:27am
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Depends what you have in mind by stable. As I recall, the 400 feels slower to react in heeling (because of its mass?) but it is a lot more powerful, so it's more a case of steering for balance whereas a 420 you can bully with body movement. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 31 May 14 at 6:25pm
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That sounds like what I was expecting the larger mass is harder to start moving in this case healing and then more effort is required to arrest that movement.
I learnt quite early on about steering for balance I moved into a laser radial out of an opi due to my hight but I was not heavy enough and had to really work the steering to stay upright. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 31 May 14 at 7:31pm
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At the risk of stating the obvious and spoiling the testosterone feeding frenzy, why not invest in some lessons for your wife using a club or centre's training boat? Once she has been taught to sail by someone else (very much your preferred option unless you know a good divorce lawyer) BOTH of you will be much better placed to choose a boat you both like. The 2000 is a great boat with a fantastic race circuit, but can seem a tad sedate after a while. It would also be a great trainer boat for an RS400 and there's a healthy second hand market. 2000 this year, 400 next year? ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 9:36am
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That was offer but was declined she only has an interest in being able to blast round the bay occasionally and every now and again the little one come to.
Thank you for assuming that I don't have her enjoyment at heart and that my marriage isn't strong enough for me to teach her bits and pieces. All I can say is I feel sorry that yours is not. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 10:22am
+1 ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 12:02pm
I don't believe anyone was suggesting your marriage isn't strong. We are all speaking from our own bitter experience, and remembering other incidents witnessed all too often. It is a frequent outcome, just like the arguments (or mutual terror) you get with parents teaching kids to drive a car! If you are teaching someone how to crew for you, outside of a competitive environment (rather than how to helm, or how to perform in a race) then I expect it will be much less of an issue. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 1:07pm
My comment was not based on any assumptions about your marriage but rather very many years as a senior sailing instructor where I have seen plenty of in-boat arguments test the ties of many a strong partnership. This thread is full of assumptions about what women want as sailors, most of them flawed. Oh, and while I'm here, thank you for assuming these posts are only read and replied to by men.  ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 1:25pm
...even if that is, unfortunately, true 99% of the time. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 2:00pm
And therein lies a very good question for another thread. Ironically enough there's some not dissimilar chat on the D-Zero Facebook page. When it comes to my wife, We used to have an RS200 - we sailed it 3 times at the puddle before she said it was a sh*t way to spend a saturday. That was before kids and I never shouted. Now her idea of great sailing involves lots of sunshine, chilled wine, nice sandwiches and comfy cushions. Our girls love spending time on our boat too, usually when the paddling pool is in cockpit and windsurf board is tied up as a swimming platform off the marina somewhere... the fact that I occasionally put the pressure on to free the mooring warps once in a while is seen as a mild inconvenience to the whole process, but hey ho, beggars can't be choosers. ------------- |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 2:21pm
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Then I must apologise for how I read your post this morning hasn't been a good day so far and you didn't deserve me venting at you.
Best regards Canoeslicer ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 2:23pm
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We have a similar problem as that is how my wife currently does her sailing, laying on the foredeck of a little toy with a ice bucket, glass and bottle. Lol. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:04pm
That is my wifes idea of sailing too...except her last trip out was on a maxi yacht in the Whitsunday Islands....... ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 12:07am
As a man who's wife tried to teach him to sail many years ago( it did not go well! ) I can only agree with the advice about about getting a third party to teach your partner to sail, then thinking about what boat/boats to get.
Elaine and I still cannot race together in the same boat
, but we have had over twenty of fun and enjoyment sailing against each other, in a variety of singlehanders and I would not swap that for anything. |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 1:48am
Yep, they've certainly got a better perspective than us blokes. |
Posted By: MerlinMags
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 12:50pm
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Upon reflection, maybe the 'Snowflake' series was a bad time of year to encourage my wife into sailing.
However, I was taken aback by how fiercely competitive she suddenly was. I imagined her ditching my helming skills quite quickly, and finding someone to take her to the top of the fleet... ...if she'd be able to cope with the way that boats do not remain 100% vertical at all times. |
Posted By: rb_stretch
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 1:55pm
I must have been lucky as I taught my wife to sail in a twin trapeze dinghy, when even I had not trapeze helmed before. A lot of laughs, plenty of bruises, but we can still sail together 16 years later! One thing I put it down to was that I was a Sunsail skipper for their Port Solent fleet when I was a student over 20 years ago. Your crew were your customers and the boat was not yours, so you just learned to be relaxed about it all. The only time I had to shout was when I had to teach a boatful of under 14s in a force 6 - completely ignorant of any dangers... |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 2:12pm
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Staying relaxed is indeed key. My ex was fearlessly confident in me until we had a capsize mid-race and I got a bit 'John McEnroe' about the time were were losing. From then on it was all downhill with her sailing confidence and enjoyment , irreversibly it seemed, unfortunately. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 9:38pm
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As a woman and regular poster here I know that being warm and comfortable is important to us, especially with something new, so whatever you sail, if she's a beginner, get her properly kitted out so she is warm enough and dry - lend your drysuit as you can suffer the wet if necessary. If she's not cold and uncomfortable, she can concentrate on the actual crewing.
Then make sure she isn't having to sit on cleats or perch on the centreboard - start with a boat with a comfortable thwart and side decks such as the club vision or wayfarer. Once she's learned in that and is a confident crew, move up to something more racy. |
Posted By: winging it
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 9:54pm
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Er Indoors moans about cleats, plus wears her drysuit pretty much year round. She also hates crewing, especially for me, but is very at home in her brand new Cadbury purple lightning. I count it as a major success that she now likes sailing enough to buy her own brand new boat, but it has taken quite some time. ------------- the same, but different... |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 04 Jun 14 at 10:41pm
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Nessa- you neglected to mention 'and registered on the Y&Y forum to cement her addiction'.... that surely is the cherry on top??? ------------- |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 8:58am
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And my wife's idea of a good sail is being jammed in the front end of a Firefly in a competitive race - so long as I shut up and sail - not because of any arguements, but because she knows what a crap result her boat will get if the helm is ranting... According to her, going for a cruise is boring. Mind, I think warm water and sunshine in any form would be welcomed, especially if Pimms is involved. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:11am
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Wow I bet that that was a bit of fun for all involved. She doesn't do anything as fun as that but we do keep a Jeanneau yacht 57 in Gibraltar which is always good fun to go out to.
Didn't know you could take a trip on a Maxi yacht or do you need to know someone with one? ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: Er-Indoors
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:12am
Yes there is no escape Wingeing It. It is true about the cleats - and the drysuit. I hate feeling wet. I might be persuaded to wear my waterproof socks and rain trousers if it was a bright sunny day and I was unlikely to fall in... I prefer single handing as then it's my fault when it all goes pearshaped, and I can try things out without annoying someone else. I did go on a level 3 instructed by the Great SI herself and it wasn't as bad as I thought, especially helming for the lady who knew where the wind/gusts were coming from (my failing). I realised I don't mind helming (why is it that the less experienced/female is always assumed to want to crew?) a double hander quite so much so maybe we should get Winging It back playing with spinnys which is what she likes best. ------------- Lightning 418 "Octarine" |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:20am
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Lol that was one of the things I had to promise to get her instantly. Lol
Great suggestions thanks for those. The only thing that worries me about going down the Wayfarer is I know for a fact that if the boat isn't capable of lots of speed she will get bored real easy. To give you an idea she's just changed her 600 cc motorbike for a 1000 cc as the 600 was to tame and she can ride both better than 95% of the guys I know. Likewise I also don't want to scare her and put her off hence my dilemma of boat as she also wants us to be able to take the little one off for a zoom round the bay. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:23am
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Hi
I'd love for my wife to helm as I prefer to crew and be out on a wire playing with a asymmetric or spinny. She has flat out refused v to learn to helm at the moment. Any hints on how I could get her to have a go helping instead. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:28am
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A nice dinghy sailing holiday?!
------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: kneewrecker
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:31am
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Before you completely write-off the wayfarer based on speed credentials, they do not feel as slow as the picture we all like to portray. In fact, they push so much water out of the way that they feel quite fast once there's a breeze on and sea running. I'd probably avoid taking GPS out with you to measure it, and go with the feeling instead.... but if she's truly a bit of brand snob, then 'sailing a way barge' might be a step too far. A (Laser) 2000 is cooler, and if you want a new one, the class has had a new injection of modern wow when RS took over building the boat. I'd certainly consider one in the future. Another boat that hit my radar recently as something sporty and fun, but not silly powerfulis the Nautica 450. The demo boat is with Rodney Cobb at Suntouched Sailboats- plenty of room for an occasional passenger too. http://www.suntouched.co.uk" rel="nofollow - http://www.suntouched.co.uk  ------------- |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:32am
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She'll helm our yacht out in Gib in a straight line when the wind isn't to strong and sometimes when I need a wee to. This is apparently different though. Lol ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: canoeslicer
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:36am
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Wouldn't say she was a brand snob re dinghy as she doesn't know one from another really.
That's a good point I hadn't thought of re the actual sensation of speed rather than the number of knots your actually doing. ------------- It's all sh*ts and giggles until someone giggles and sh*ts. |
Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 9:43am
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In lighter winds you can humiliate many a faster boat in a Wayfarer anyway. It took an hour and a half, a long downwind leg and an increase in wind for our local RS100 to shake off a pair of Hartley Wayfarers last Sunday; the Blaze never did shake them off. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 11:28am
 ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: piglet
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 4:24pm
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I've crewed a bit for a mate in a Wayfarer, on a pond, and enjoyed it.
Physical when it's blowy and plenty technical enough to keep a crew busy, they also keep going when the wind stops, must have some form of built in hyperdrive.
What I really wanted to say was that my better half puts up with a lot in our 200 and still wants to sail with me, in all seasons, bizarre.
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Posted By: Medway Maniac
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 4:46pm
Yes, it's called mass! I bet they humiliate Farr 3.7's too when they're not trapezing, Jack S. ------------- http://www.wilsoniansc.org.uk" rel="nofollow - Wilsonian SC http://www.3000class.org.uk" rel="nofollow - 3000 Class |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 05 Jun 14 at 7:56pm
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Get an Osprey and be done with it. You can race it three-up so fun for the whole family.
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Posted By: Do Different
Date Posted: 06 Jun 14 at 7:42am
| Now you're talking, the voice of reason. Power, pace and manners. Worth looking at a Javelin as well, very similar, maybe feel a touch lighter. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 06 Jun 14 at 9:48am
The voice of reason? FFS there is no hope.  ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Pierre
Date Posted: 06 Jun 14 at 1:13pm
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There's always hope fella.... after all, you're still dinghy sailing :-) |
Posted By: ben_a
Date Posted: 24 Jun 14 at 10:51pm
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Since every other boat has been mentioned what about a fireball? I know it's not a hiking boat - but it is stable, well mannered and easy to learn in. Comfortable for helm and crew. Trapeze and spinnaker can then come in when you want more excitement.
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