Choosing a new dinghy
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11408
Printed Date: 04 Aug 25 at 12:51pm
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Topic: Choosing a new dinghy
Posted By: O_Long
Subject: Choosing a new dinghy
Date Posted: 22 Mar 14 at 10:12pm
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Hi all! With the 2014 season about to start, I'm in need of some assistance from some more experienced sailors about what dinghy to buy. Our relatively small club doesn't have a large variety of boats, so it's difficult to know what to pick. Allow me to explain my situation. I'm 15, about 5'7, and weigh about 7 and a half stone, so I'm pretty small for my age. My friend (roughly same age and height) is my crew and he's about 10 stone. We both started sailing about midway through last year, and pooled our funds into a cheap wooden GP14. We sailed this for the remainder of the season and then renovated it in the winter to make a tidy profit. Our local club is on the River Witham in Boston, Lincolnshire, and we don't often get the chance to get out on open water rather than a river. We had learned to sail in GPs, so that's why we bought one, but we soon found that they were less than ideal on rivers, despite their large sail area. What we're looking for is quite specific, and I realise that we may need to compromise in some areas. We'd like a dinghy that handles well on rivers (not too complicated to sail, doesn't lose much speed when tacking), is relatively fast (we're looking to get to the front of the pack  ) but also quite stable (I know this is a bit contradictory, but we race on a Wednesday evening, and I often don't have time to get fully changed after a capsize because I have to bike home - we don't want to be capsizing on a regular basis). It would also be great if I was able to take it out single-handedly without the jib in the event my crew doesn't show up. Again, I know this a very specific set of criteria, but any guidance would help.My current thought is a Miracle dinghy - they seem fairly fast but not tippy, and have the capability to be sailed with just a main. However, the Commodore expressed his concern that Miracles don't have the largest of sail areas, and that's one of the more important factors on a river that often doesn't have wind, especially when passing trees on the bank. So, what are your thoughts? Is a Miracle just what I need, or will it underperform on a river? Have you guys got any other suggestions for dinghies? All help is appreciated. Many thanks, Owen
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Replies:
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 22 Mar 14 at 10:25pm
| An older National 12 might be a good bet, but probably not singlehanded at 7.5 stone. |
Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 22 Mar 14 at 10:54pm
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Does it have to have a spinnaker? If not, how about a firefly or even a graduate. Both are good on confined water. The firefly can also be sailed single handed competitively, don't know enough about the graduate to know how it sails single handed. |
Posted By: O_Long
Date Posted: 22 Mar 14 at 11:16pm
| Nope, doesn't need a spinnaker at all considering I'm on a river. One of the guys had a firefly last season, I'll have a chat to him about it. |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 22 Mar 14 at 11:56pm
| Graduate is a good boat. Would be great for your weight and will fly in the light stuff on a river. Make sure you get a new rules main and you'll be flying. You can easily sail it single-handed if it's light. Visit Graduate Sailing Dinghy Fan Club on Facebook. Chris Parker normally has a boat or two ready to sell. |
Posted By: O_Long
Date Posted: 23 Mar 14 at 6:57pm
Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated. Keep it coming! 
What should I be looking for in a Grad? Any notable differences between the wooden and fibreglass boats besides more work on a wooden one? There's also a cheap Miracle nearby, how well do they sail on rivers? |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 23 Mar 14 at 9:12pm
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Miracles are good little boats and I am sure they would sail ok on small confined rivers but they will suffer a bit given the rig is quite short.
If you look at Grads, then a wooden Alpha Grad sail no. 2900+ would be good. The early plastic grads are ok but tend to get heavy and soft. Later GRP boats (Sprinters) are not bad, and the latest Roosters are very nice but probably out of your price range. Dont be put off by the maintenance on a wooden boat. A well made one should require 1 or 2 coats of varnish a year and it only takes 20mins to brush on a coat. |
Posted By: iGRF
Date Posted: 24 Mar 14 at 8:42am
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My first reaction is to suggest you ring child line and tell them you've been abused on the internet by 'old boat groomers' and then tell your parents unless they buy you a nice X0 river boat you're likely to become drug addicts or take to robbing post offices or pensioners of their savings until you can afford one.
Then again there are a couple of young(ish) chaps that absolutely kill it in a Miracle on our lake, including leading the entire fleet for the first triangle this week just gone, this in the face of my sailing genius which takes some doing these days. Then I believe it's one of those all carbon Miracles they make cunningly disguised as varnished wood, very clever. He posts in here occasionally goes by the name of NealG, is a sailmaker and will probably give you as good advice about Miracles and how fast you can make them go as most and of course they have the most ludicrously favourable handicap known to bandit world, so you can't actually lose in one ever .
Personally though I'd follow the childline plan and blackmail the parentals into an X0, sailing old boats makes you sterile and unattractive to the opposite sex, it's written. ------------- https://www.corekite.co.uk/snow-accessories-11-c.asp" rel="nofollow - Snow Equipment Deals https://www.corekite.co.uk" rel="nofollow - New Core Kite website |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 24 Mar 14 at 9:02am
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Far too small for an X0... I grew up in Fireflies, so I'm biased, but as far as I'm concerned, for confined water the boat is perfect. Plenty of rocker for quick turns, round bottomed for great roll tacks, rig easy to read for all the wind shifts. If you don't want an old wood boat, there are loads of Rondar boat around now. Just watch out if buying an ex-uni boat that is hasn't been trashed. In fact, assume it has unless you can prove otherwise. New designs are all very well, but most are designed for a different purpose than you are looking for. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: Alexv
Date Posted: 24 Mar 14 at 11:42am
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Graduate and Miracles are both nice boats. I've seen a few Miracles doing pretty well on a river. |
Posted By: Stu B
Date Posted: 24 Mar 14 at 4:05pm
| I'd go along with most of the suggestions above, but just to throw another option in, how about a Tasar? I don't know the river you sail on, but you mentioned that you would like to be at the front of the fleet, a Tasar is quite quick without the hassle of a spinnaker. I think they also cope with tides ok, the only problem i can think of is that they have a daggerboard, a centreboard may be better on the river. |
Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 24 Mar 14 at 10:53pm
| You will be absolutely fine with a miracle on a river. I used to sail on the norfolk broads, which has many treelined sections, mirrors and Gulls went well enough, I dont recall any miracles sailing there at the time, but if mirrors and gulls went ok, then I cant see a problem with a miracle. Not only that the miracle is a nice little boat, and should provide a good grounding in dinghy sailing skills. I bought one accidentally a few years ago (it was cheap and local on ebay) to teach my kids to sail, and have just upgraded it to a brand new one. |
Posted By: O_Long
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 12:16am
| Okay, seems the situation has changed.. My crew is only going to be there half the time, so it might be an idea to look at single handers instead. I think I may still go for the Grad and sail it without a jib when the crew's not there. |
Posted By: Time Lord
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 8:35am
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Generally two sailed boats sailed without the jib are dogs unless you can move the made forward (as on the Mirror). Suggest that you learn to sail the boat singlehanded but with both sails.
Remember that the Firefly was designed as the Olympic singlehander and is easily sailed by just one. ------------- Merlin Rocket 3609 |
Posted By: Rupert
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 10:23am
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The firefly was USED as the Olympic singlehander, not designed for it. But it is pretty easy to sail singlehanded. I prefer aft main to do so (easier to hold main and tiller in one hand) and jib cleats are important, but once you learn the tacking technique, it is a doddle, especially on a river. ------------- Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686 |
Posted By: craiggo
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 6:12pm
| Sailing the Grad singlehanded with both sails is a doddle, bear in mind that a fair few of us sail them with 6yr old crews! |
Posted By: O_Long
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 8:47pm
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Hm, okay. I might keep an eye out for Grads, but are there any decent river racing single handers out there? Bear in mind I'm pretty small, and I'm looking for something that will keep me pretty dry (that means no Toppers or Lasers! ) What do you think? A Solo? Perhaps a Finn (little bit wet)? Even a Europe? Apologies if it sounds like I keep changing my mind.
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Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 11:12pm
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British Moth, lightning or comet.
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Posted By: O_Long
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 11:32pm
Hm, maybe a little bit too wet for me I'm afraid - I'm much more a fan of sitting in a boat, rather than on it! Thanks for the response in any case.
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Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 29 Mar 14 at 11:46pm
| Wet? All of these boats are sit in boats. Are you sure your not thinking of an international moth? |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 30 Mar 14 at 5:20am
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British moth is probably the classic river singlehander, esp for lightweights, and is not at all like the inrernational. Although its small and low freeboard I really wouldn't describe it as wet.
http://www.britishmoth.co.uk 
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Posted By: Blue One
Date Posted: 30 Mar 14 at 9:21am
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The boat in the foreground is for sale on apollo duck at the moment.
It's a great boat, but wood. Not many glass ones about. If your after a glass boat, might be easier to look for a lightning or a comet.
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Posted By: O_Long
Date Posted: 30 Mar 14 at 11:48am
| Oh, yes, silly me, was thinking of the hydrofoil thing! |
Posted By: splash2711
Date Posted: 26 May 23 at 3:12pm
| The Rooster graduate is not being made any more. Though you can buy wooden version of the Graduate dinghy it can not really compete with the Rooster version which is FRP. So not raelly a fair class should be more like the National 12 with each version of the boat a different PY but it isn't that's why older graduates don't really do well over the roosters. |
Posted By: patj
Date Posted: 11 Jun 23 at 6:19am
| Nobody has mentioned the Lark yet it was the student boat of choice for many years and is faster than the Firefly. A Parker or Rondar version would be inexpensive, the class encourages youth sailing and it sounds like it would suit. |