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Active Classes

Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: Dinghy classes
Forum Name: Dinghy development
Forum Discription: The latest moves in the dinghy market
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1126
Printed Date: 14 Aug 25 at 8:14pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Active Classes
Posted By: boatshed
Subject: Active Classes
Date Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 8:59pm

Here's a general thought:  Some of the most interesting and enjoyable classes to race struggle to attract a significant following.  Those that immediately spring to mind include the Cherub, Moth, Tasar, B14 & N12, RS 300.   Is it a British thing or the fact we mostly sail on restricted waters or simply we are just comfortable with the fact it is that racing that's important and the boat is secondary ? 



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Steve



Replies:
Posted By: fizzicist
Date Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 9:30pm

Given the behaviour of the sailors in some of the larger fleets I've sailed in, it's really rather pleasant that the 300 fleet has a growing number of competitive, keen sailors who aren't obsessed with protesting anything that moves. The racing is hard, close and competitive but always friendly.

The list of boats you've mentioned aren't exactly easy things to sail though - perhaps it's simply natural selection at work ;)



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Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and
oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital
ingredient in beer.


Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 20 Oct 05 at 7:07am

Originally posted by boatshed

is it a British thing

Compared to who? I think you will find that the UK dinghy fleet actually has a higher proportion of modern and high performance designs than most of the rest of the world, and in particular more than most of mainland Europe and the USA.   

But to answer your question: personally, I've always bought for the fleet and the circuit. The boat is secondary.



Posted By: Shingle
Date Posted: 20 Oct 05 at 8:22am
I think the issue here is diversity. There are too many choices, and whereas boats used to rot away, these days they remain sailable for years. It might persist in places but years ago if you joined a club you'd be recommended a choice of boat to sail to keep the class racing strong within a club. The PY system to assists the wide range of dinghies available, giving the chance to compete against each other, even if there is the odd PY bandit out there. B14s are enjoying a renaissance at present as is the 300. These things go in cycles, perhaps people don’t travel as much because company cars aren’t so prevalent or you can’t blag the petrol like you could 10 years ago. From a personal point of view, we don’t do any circuit racing because two factors called kids!

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Drink Feck girls!


Posted By: blaze720
Date Posted: 20 Oct 05 at 10:56am

Well this is bound to produce a lot of "us too" comment !  So I must put in a word for the Blaze in this forum as most of our discussions are held in a 'yahoo groups' environment and 'active' must surely mean more than busy on this site !.  The Blaze class is perhaps one of the best 'born again' examples of recent years.  This year climbing up to 53 at the nationals and 29 at last wekends Inlands at Oxford.  The association and its members set out a few short years ago to revive the class and embarked on a programme of low cost rig refinement and a concerted membership drive - We got away from all the manufacturers hyperbole and simply got people to try the upgraded boat.  Used boats are highly sought after now and the earliest examples have DOUBLED in price in the past 2 years.  If  people liked the boat after first hand experience they quickly get hold of one and new fleets were born.  It's not rocket science, and successful class needs to have real appeal to a section of the racing community, be backed by those who love it and be prepared to change it if its needed.  The other thing we set down very early on was - never knock other classes in any way -  we should all be pleased that others race in whatever turns them on.  Perhaps those of us who really pay for it in the end should leave all the pushing and shoving to the manufacturers !    

In the meantime have a look at  http://www.blaze-sailing.org.uk / - www.blaze-sailing.org.uk  and maybe a quick look at the video extracts.  Even if you never intend to own one yourself, all are welcome to come along some time and give it a go as well. 

Cheers - Mike '720'

 

    



Posted By: Shingle
Date Posted: 20 Oct 05 at 11:30am

So there you have it! It all down to an enthusiastic minority, much like managing a lot of the sailing clubs around the country. Commodore was something that people proudly took on in the past, these days it can be a poison chalice!

Back to boats, look at the 59er, poorly marketed, with no owners association. This superb performing boat looks destined to fail, unless it too can find a dedicated minority to promote it strengths. Where it differs is not having a fair amount of cheap entry boats, like the nineties renaissance classes.

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Drink Feck girls!


Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 20 Oct 05 at 6:51pm
N12 numbers are not that small,

while the champs entry was down for this year (Abersoch is a long way from any 12 sailing clubs) and opens were a bit quieter than usual (lots of new additions to various 12 sailing families meant not hitting the road so much) the champs average is still 55 boats over the past 5 years.  Thats pretty much in the same ball park as many of the other hiking two handers:
Larks 48
Fireflies 53
Scorpions 63
Merlin 64
Albacore 43

As has been said above, these things go in cycles and with more and more modern 12s starting to turn up on the 2nd hand list at attractive prices I think things will begin to pick up again soon.  With the 70th anniversary next year the champs entry should be one of the best for years.
 


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 20 Oct 05 at 10:58pm

The reason the slower boats appeal more is that they are accessable to a wider audience; makes sense really.

Everyone is looking for somthing that suits their needs which is why such a large number of classes can survive.

It's the people who sail the class that make the biggest difference ...

Rick



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Posted By: AndrewM
Date Posted: 21 Oct 05 at 10:17am
Your normal club sailor who does a few open meetings often picks up a new crew on the offchance, very difficult to do this with an Int14, you need to be committed (in both senses probably).  You can't overestimate the influence of the class association, particularly where it works hard to encourage club sailors.  Everyone talks about the class they sail because it's the one they know, but the success of the Merlin is not just because of the better availability of competitive boats.  Even that was from an initiative led by the class association and required some rule changes.  There is an excellent, affordable training programme and regional as well as the national circuits of open meetings.  However good the boat is you won't get the competitive racing we all enjoy without this (voluntary!) infrastructure


Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 21 Oct 05 at 10:50am

I think that is one of the reasons the "traditional" classes seem to do well is because they have a long history of voluntary labour to drive and administer the class.

When a new SMOD arrives they face the challenge of building a comittee of volunteers from scratch; this is not easy to do ...

If we use the RS300 as an example; it's resurgence is driven by the guys that are sailing it.

Rick



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Posted By: gordon
Date Posted: 21 Oct 05 at 11:35am

The choice of a class is a very personal matter. It all depends on what you want to do, and who you want to do it with. Let me give an example - imagine you want to sail a hiking, no-spinnaker dinghy (aka known as the thinking man's tactical racing option - especially down wind).

The person who wants truly international racing with a circuit of races throughout the world (Febuary in Nassau, Easter in San Remo, summer in Scandinavia... plus the occasional trip to Japan or to Rio), a class in which you can borrow boats abroad and still do well... will naturally gravitate towards the Snipe, despite the relatively low level of activity in Britain (although there are fleets from Broadstairs to the Orkneys).

The person who wants lots of open mettings but can't be bothered to have to much contact with Johnny Foreigner and their funny lingo will go for the English speaking option - the Enterprise. Huge activity here (including Ireland)plus the odd Worlds in India...

For the less travelled, who wants a friendly, family-friendly circuit there is the Graduate...

None of these remarks implies any criticism of the boats (indeed I suspect that the intrinsic charecteristics of the boat are laregly irrelevant), or the people who sail them. I just want to point out that the personality of the fleet, and the type of activity, is a significant factor in choosing a boat.

Now try the same excercise with other categories of boats...

 



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Gordon


Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 25 Oct 05 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Shingle


Back to boats, look at the 59er, poorly marketed, with no owners association. This superb performing boat looks destined to fail, unless it too can find a dedicated minority to promote it strengths. Where it differs is not having a fair amount of cheap entry boats, like the nineties renaissance classes.


Do you sail a 59er? looks like one on the avatar. Are you heavy like me- see my request in the 'buying a boat'The 59er lacks even a mention on Ovi's banner add above the forum and seems pricey so maybe the marketing is all wrong.

One problem with many of the new classes and existing boats is for those of us with more weight- you are left with the finn, phantom and megabyte which are mostly limited by numbers or geography. For two up you have the same problem with the lightening and the 505 is pretty pricey for a new kitted out boat to say the least.

There are too many classes fighting in the 'average' sailor belt. One design racing is the true test.





Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 25 Oct 05 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by damp_freddie

Originally posted by Shingle


Back to boats, look at the 59er, poorly marketed, with no owners association. This superb performing boat looks destined to fail, unless it too can find a dedicated minority to promote it strengths. Where it differs is not having a fair amount of cheap entry boats, like the nineties renaissance classes.



Do you sail a 59er? looks like one on the avatar. Are you heavy like me- see my request in the 'buying a boat'The 59er lacks even a mention on Ovi's banner add above the forum and seems pricey so maybe the marketing is all wrong.

One problem with many of the new classes and existing boats is for those of us with more weight- you are left with the finn, phantom and megabyte which are mostly limited by numbers or geography. For two up you have the same problem with the lightening and the 505 is pretty pricey for a new kitted out boat to say the least.

There are too many classes fighting in the 'average' sailor belt. One design racing is the true test.

Damp Freddie ... so I guess you will have to eat less pies and stick to the tonic water ...

What about getting an FD ... they look pretty good and it seems most people in the UK sail older boats so should be cheap ... plus they are pretty good overseas so you get lots of nice holidays ...

Rick



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Posted By: Guest
Date Posted: 25 Oct 05 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by damp_freddie

Originally posted by Shingle


Back to boats, look at the 59er, poorly marketed, with no owners association. This superb performing boat looks destined to fail, unless it too can find a dedicated minority to promote it strengths. Where it differs is not having a fair amount of cheap entry boats, like the nineties renaissance classes.


Do you sail a 59er? looks like one on the avatar. Are you heavy like me- see my request in the 'buying a boat'The 59er lacks even a mention on Ovi's banner add above the forum and seems pricey so maybe the marketing is all wrong.

One problem with many of the new classes and existing boats is for those of us with more weight- you are left with the finn, phantom and megabyte which are mostly limited by numbers or geography. For two up you have the same problem with the lightening and the 505 is pretty pricey for a new kitted out boat to say the least.

There are too many classes fighting in the 'average' sailor belt. One design racing is the true test.





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Posted By: damp_freddie
Date Posted: 25 Oct 05 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

I think that is one of the reasons the "traditional" classes seem to do well is because they have a long history of voluntary labour to drive and administer the class.

When a new SMOD arrives they face the challenge of building a comittee of volunteers from scratch; this is not easy to do ...

Is we use the RS300 as an example; it's resurgence is not driven by LDC but by the guys that are sailing it.

Rick



You need manufacturer committment  in todays market.

Eating pies is optional.



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