Enterprise
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
Forum Discription: Ask any questions about the sport!
URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11057
Printed Date: 05 Aug 25 at 9:57am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.665y - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Enterprise
Posted By: Jamie600
Subject: Enterprise
Date Posted: 03 Sep 13 at 12:59pm
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Hi all,
My girlfriend and I are looking to get an Enterprise for club racing, budget £2500 - £3000, just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on frp vs wood? I've not been able to find any 'buyers guides' on the Ent association site, or indeed anywhere so I've no idea what the best option would be.
Ideally we don't want to be doing lots of maintainence so the obvious choice is an frp one, but will this be competitive compared with a good wood boat?
I've been told a Rondar Mk 2 is just as quick as a wood boat but as this advice came from the seller of a Rondar Mk 2 I am taking it with a pinch of salt... ------------- RS600 1001 |
Replies:
Posted By: GybeFunny
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 10:30am
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I dont sail Ents but the top boats at my club are all FRP but that may be more a factor of the sailors then the boats.... Why not look at the Y&Y nationals gear guides and the nationals results?
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Posted By: getafix
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 10:36am
| FRP versus wood will come down to two things; most obvious is budget, but most important, IMO, is willingness to sand-varnish-sand-varnish repeat....as you say you don't want to be doing too much maintenance then there's really only two ways to go; get an FRP or buy a woodie and find a boat-builder nearby who can do the varnishing for you. Main things to look at IMO would be overall condition, weight, foils and spars, sails and suppliers are plentiful. Bon chance, great boats for sailing with the missus and good across a mega wide wind-band |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 11:30am
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A generic comparison of plastics against plywood as far as boat construction materials is concerned is that an epoxy/foam sandwich boat built by a competent builder should be at least as good as wood. A vinylester/foam sandwich boat should be OK too. A boat that is not foam sandwich construction will never be as good as wood.
E Class specifics - no idea. |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 12:01pm
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Personally, I'd only spend over £2k on a wood dinghy if I had a credible plan to keep it indoors in winter out of the frost. That way, the varnish stays on, but it may not work if you want to sail more than 8 months of the year. Buy a VGC boat, look after it, touch up the minor damage and there should not be too much work for a few years. At that point you can take a view.
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Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 12:33pm
| The older fibre glass Ents, like one I used to sail, flex on the underside, boths sides of where the front bulkhead meets the hull.....nasty cracks |
Posted By: RS400atC
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 12:48pm
I had a Solo like that, but surely plain GRP (non sandwich) hulls are very old now and not in the £2k bracket? I must admit nearly all the Ents I sailed had less than 5 digits in the number. Does E7270 still exist I wonder?
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Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 1:13pm
Just joining in...you know, run around a bit and look like a crowd.  and I have no idea when they stopped making them like that. E7270 would be about 1960/1 |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 04 Sep 13 at 11:57pm
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Does anyone on here have a feel for what the Enterprise sailors in general think about the latest Rondar Mk 3 double bottomed boats? Can't see a lot of feedback about them on the Class Association website.
I note however, from the Y&Y Gear Guide the boats took top 3 places at the Nationals which perhaps suggest that it might just be the way to go? As a getting a bit long in the tooth Micro Pond National 12 sailor I reckon it could be a good prospect for my dotage.
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Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 05 Sep 13 at 2:14pm
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We have two MkIII's at our club, very nice looking and very quick in the right hands (we have one at the front of the fleet and one towards the back) Thanks for the advice guys, looks like the sensible way to go is FRP. We do have an outbuilding that is garage-sized but has a normal door rather than a garage door, so would need converting . All I really need is confirmation that an frp boat isn't slow, compared with an equivalent wood one. The gear guides don't help as they are too recent, for the price we are looking at it would be approx 10 years old. I'll see if I can find any Ent sailors without a vested interest, but if anyone has any further thoughts please post, thanks ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 06 Sep 13 at 8:54am
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GRP Ent's, before 20000 numbers, are well worth avoiding.
After that, any FRP / epoxy Ent will be as good and as fast as an equivalent condition wooden boat. Some wooden boats of your age will be (will have had to be) well looked after. Some might be tidied up to sell (which is much easier to do with a new coat of paint on a wooden boat than on ingrained dirt on an FRP boat). Personally (ex Ent sailor, having had 4 different ones), even with a garage available, I would go with a good FRP rather than wooden. Don't spend all your money on the boat - a new cover, new jib / main sheets and a new set of sails makes all the difference to the look and feel of the boat. |
Posted By: jeffers
Date Posted: 06 Sep 13 at 11:23am
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We have a very old wooden ent at Hunts, 3764 which does well against much newer boats. The fast guys do have wood though which if epoxied is almost at tough as plastic but would definitely benefit from being taken home during the winter and stored dry. The 'newer' FRP boats are reputedly as good as an equivalent wooden boat I am told by the Enterprise gurus at Hunts (the Ent class admiral is a member). ------------- Paul ---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
Posted By: The Moo
Date Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 7:43am
| We have a couple who sail a 17k series composite hull with an old black top needlespar and new Edge Sails. They are light weight and fly in most conditions other than honking. Very difficult to touch them in a handicap race. Unfortunately the only other Ent at the Club which is FRP is not sailed that well, so difficult to gauge the boat's relative performance but it does look quick when all the anecdotal evidence suggests it shouldn't be |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 08 Sep 13 at 8:22pm
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Thanks guys, good advice. Looks like FRP it is ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: sawman
Date Posted: 09 Sep 13 at 1:22pm
This^^^ they were rubbish when new compared to wooden boats - by now I am surprised there are any seaworthy ones left!
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Posted By: ChrisJ
Date Posted: 09 Sep 13 at 4:58pm
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Agreed: but that doesn't stop people trying to sell them! But I pity the poor beginner who buys one and takes it out in anything over about 10 knots...
The best thing for them (then! and now and I had one for a good few years) is to find a roundabout and to put flowers in them. |
Posted By: transient
Date Posted: 09 Sep 13 at 5:17pm
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The club had 3 old GRP ents, some of the first made, in the region of 12000. They lasted years, being used by the sailing school. Loads of people gained their 1 & 2 sailing the things, they were finally retired to the graveyard in 2007. 1 has since been restored and is used by a family for pottering around and occasional racing, getting a couple of 2nd and 3rd positions in club races last year......It has no transom flaps or bailer apart from a bucket and it won't take 400lbs tension. I would agree that they are not that well made by modern standards but they are/were not completely useless. |
Posted By: Caveman
Date Posted: 15 Oct 13 at 8:19pm
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Unless I could store my boat under cover, I too would go for an FRP Enterprise. I used to have a Speed FRP Ent. Performance wise, I don't reckon there is a great deal to choose between FRP and a wood boats of the same age /value from reputable builders. All but the most recent FRP hulls are constructed in polyester FRP. They last quite well but are perhaps not quite as durable as, epoxy FRP hulls. Ent rigs are put under a lot of rig tension and I have noticed stress cracking in the gelcoats of some quite young examples. ------------- Enthusiasm>Skill |
Posted By: ColPrice2002
Date Posted: 16 Oct 13 at 11:48am
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Just a last thought...
"We do have an outbuilding that is garage-sized but has a normal door rather than a garage door, so would need converting ." It's quite possible to fit an Enterprise through a standard door - sideways. Use a couple of old blankets (or a couple of dollies - one inside, one outside) and a couiple of people each end. HTH CP09 |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 17 Oct 13 at 9:26pm
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Useful to know, although it would be a bit of a faff doing that every time we sail, plus it means moving a load of junk out of the garage first! ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 2:33pm
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Clutching at straws here, but would a car port be any good to protect a wood boat over winter? Obviously it isn't going to provide much in the way of warmth but would keep the elements out and possibly the worst of the frost? Excuse my ignorance but I've only ever really had glass/frp boats ------------- RS600 1001 |
Posted By: JimC
Date Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 2:43pm
To my mind a wood boat's biggest enemies are frost and ice. A car port keeps the frost off and keeps water out and thus ice from forming, so yes, I'd say it will be a substantial help. The other thing that's well worth doing is to check the boat regularly to make sure water, leaves and other detritus isn't getting in under cover and the boat is as dry as possible. |
Posted By: rogerd
Date Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 5:39pm
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I have kept my wooden boat in a carport for a long time. It was protected by fence panels on one side and the end was sheltered. As Jim says if you can keep the boat dry and aired you can stored outside upside down. Raise the boat off the ground and put a sheet over her with room an old mast or similar cut down to hold the sheet off the boat. As long as she is dry the frost cant do to much damage. Airflow is important.
Beware though a small puddle of water can do a huge amount of damage over a winter. |
Posted By: Jamie600
Date Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 7:50pm
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Thanks guys that's good to know ------------- RS600 1001 |