Saturday was about 12-15 knots and Sunday was 6 - 8knots so a bit of everything.

The full details are here;

http://www.mustoskiff.com/reports-and-news/2005/tide-ride.htm - http://www.mustoskiff.com/reports-and-news/2005/tide-ride.ht m

Great event; I really enjoyed it.

There is also a report by Paul Brotherton on thedailysail.com.

Rick

If anything this would be 700 conditions not that it matters.

It was a good fun event and I enjoyed racing RS700/MPS together, nice to see some old friends and new faces.Thank you HISC for running the event and Holt for the Prizes

It would be fun to have a race of all the fast single handers together (any one out there keen to organise it?)it would make for a big fleet. The French almost ran an event called Extreme Solitare but cancelled it

Possible boats could be MPS,RS700,ICA,IC,Foiling Moths,RS600,Contenders,Phantom,Blaze?

It would be more like the hare and the tortoise

if you raced MPS etc against Blaze

Why not add some single handed cats into the equation ???

Never heard of it ! When was it ? Do you remember a name ?

Could be a good idea though

Sounds like a good plan.

Again this year at the Grafham Cat open (this coming weekend) there will be prizes (extracted from the whole fast handicap fleet) for fast single handed cats.

The Scottish have a similar event called the Scottish Single hander championship. The 300’s use it as part of there traveler series. I am sure who ever did it would get masses of boats as long as it is kept central

A couple of us on the 700 committee have been discussing the idea of some form of top singlehanded skiff event for a while now.  The original idea was a sort of round robin including swapping boats, but we were struggling to know which classes we could include to make it fair.  700 / MPS / ICA  and possibly 600 / IC / Vario was about where my thinking was.

Is there any appetite for this type of event?

Ian

RS700 GBR912

How can you include the Contender, Phantom and Blaze, but specificaly miss out conventional moths? The foilers are certainly more comparable to the MPS etc but lowriders are by no means sluggish

I think the collaborative events such as the Assy Grand Prix and the Sym Grand Prix have done well; all you are really talking about is a Single Handed Grand Prix.

I think this could be interesting ...

Rick

Isis

Its not a difinative list just some boats that might be interested?

I would like to sail in a big fleet like when I sailed lasers with 300 on one start line and a good party. but its proberbly not practical with different types of boats. May be it should be spilt into Assymetric inc cats if you want as they sail simular angles, Trapeze and hiking. Swapping boats sounds fun I would love a go in a moth but I think it would snap if it floated.

Hi All:

The Scottish Singlehanded Champs is a good novelty event and it's great fun - but there is such a wide range of boats that the result is determined more by the weather conditions and the course set by the race officer, rather than the best sailor. I've sailed in it for many years and I won it this year in a Musto Skiff - but if the wind had been a touch stronger, or if the reaches had been a little tighter I'd not have been able to hold my kite around the course, and I'd have been wasting my time.

You get much more meaningful racing by combining similar types of boats - and for the Musto Skiff/ RS700 that means other fast asymmetric 'Skiffs' - such as Int 14s/ 49ers/ RS800s/ Laser 4000s/ 29ers/ etc (don't be offended if I've missed your class!). All these classes want to sail similar windward/ leeward courses and the PY handicaps are relatively meaningful.

In Scotland we started 'Scottish Skiff Racing' this year, for exactly that reason - see our web site: http://www.scottishskiffracing.com - http://www.scottishskiffracing.com  - it's been very popular, with 64 skiffs competing in one or more of our 5 'Grand Prix' events. The results are on the web site, along with our definition of a 'Skiff'. We even managed to get an excellent sponsor for the series - Trident-UK: http://www.trident-uk.com - http://www.trident-uk.com . We also run skiff training events too.

There are other similar organisations in France and the Netherlands:

http://www.breizhskiff.com - http://www.breizhskiff.com

http://www.skiffzeilen.nl - http://www.skiffzeilen.nl

I'd recommend combining skiffs in preference to combining singlehanded classes - but no harm in both - it's all good fun!

Happy sailing,

Ian R

Hey, Sten:

It would take some foiling Moth to get your lardy .... airbourne !

Ian R

I would suggest single handed Asy boats instead of Skiff's - we cats are doing similar angled downhill

We'd love to come and play with our cats with you guys.  We know we'll get stuffed when it's light (Till I get my new boat anyway) but it would be fun.

If I had the time I'd do the Asy slalom at Grafham in Nov.  

It would take some foiling Moth to get your lardy .... airbourne !

Steel foils so they dont break,alot of wind and a tow in start off the rescue boat it would be still fun to try.

perhaps we'd see such an event evolving from the scottish single handed champs if we ran it a bit closer to th border, often it is the distance to travel that exclude competitors from an event, if we made it much more accesible then the numbers would surely grow... A big central fast handicap single handed event would be excellent, if it was to be un with reaching courses for the single sails and windward leeward for the asy. boats then it would be great you could start with 2 starts one for each course and just run off of handicaps. Yes the idea needs tweaking but it doesnt sound too complicated.

True; but with enough thrust it's possible to get a 747 off the ground so what speed would a foiling moth need to reach to lift Sten's up?

Perhaps a tow start as per the surfers on Jaws ...

Grafham ? -  The schedule will be full for next year (I'm 99.9% sure)

Or Rutland ?  

It's not a great idea to combine all singlehanded boats on the same course, because the high-performance asymmetric skiffs blasting downwind through a fleet of (eg) Lasers/ Toppers/ Oppies is a recipe for disaster - it's guaranteed to put some young kid off sailing when he gets a bow-sprit coming towards him at 20+ knots. Windward boat keeps clear!

At least other skiffs know to keep a look-out when they are going upwind and shout an early warning (well, some do).

You'd really need 2 courses, and then it's not the same event.

Ian R.

If you sail the Saturday with your own boat and Sunday with a different type it will even out any advantages of a particular class.   I Hope there is not any oppies there I'm way over 74.7Kg

Yes, MUST be 2 (or maybe 3 courses)

Consider a slow asm like a vareo vs something quick like an I17 / Shadow PY around 735 (or something V quick like my new boat PY around 650)

Might actually want to split it V fast(ASM), Fast(ASM), and not fast (non ASM) 

Quiberon around 3 or 4 Years ago. I was looking forward to going what is it like to sail there?

Read 2 posts above.....

I've always simply avoided big handicap events.  With the limited visibility a single handed skiff has with the genniker up, it can get quite hairy with lots of boats sailing different angles at high speed.  Not fun!

Ian

RS700 GBR912

You just have to plan ahead a little more ... and if in doubt slow down ...

Exactly.  Not seeing is no excuse.  In order to be safe (and sailing one of the fastest things on Grafham) I have to spend a fair bit of planning ahead and time looking under the kite - the implications of hitting anyone while travelling at the sort of speeds involved does not really bear thinking about.

Also; how can you spot shifts and pressure if your eyes are not outside the boat?

Scooby - Since when has Grafham been close to the Scottish Border -  its very close to London. Keilder would fit the bill as even though its officially in England, it feels like Scotland and is a great venue. Further South is Derwent Reservoir but as Leeds is actually half way to Edinburgh from London that may be to far for southerners to travel. Only decent paces at that latitude are Filey/Bridlington and Yorkshire Dales.

Mind you lets face it, if you want more than a couple of 700s to turn up you'll have to hold it at Hayling. 

We still have a skiff race in Quiberon every year and next one is due to be on the 8-9-10th of may 2006 but it's not only for singlehanders. It's an amazing, beautifull, salvage venue full of wind.

I'll let you know when I know more about it.

We also have Carnac on the 2nd WE of september.

I appreciate the humour.  However you'd be surprised how many 700's are dotted around the North of England and Scotland. It would be a great opportunity for them to take part in an open event. 

I have always wondered where all the 700's must be given the sail numbers (are there any gaps in the sail numbers??); If there are so many in the NE & Scotland how come there were 0 at the Lord Birkett out of 200+ boats (11 MPS's) and just one entered in the Scottish Skiff Circuit out of 64 boats(22 MPS's)

See

http://www.scottishskiffracing.com/2005_grand_prix_final_report.htm - http://www.scottishskiffracing.com/2005_grand_prix_final_rep ort.htm

http://www.ullswateryachtclub.org/lord-birkett-results.asp - http://www.ullswateryachtclub.org/lord-birkett-results.asp

Rick

Now, now Rick, you're twisting my words. We all know there aren't hundreds, but as I said there are more than you think.

Oh, and sorry mate, there are no gaps in the sail numbers.

But as you raised the subject I was always interested in the sailors database on your website. 

http://www.mustoskiff.com/sailors-database.htm - http://www.mustoskiff.com/sailors-database.htm

Sail No 51 has no name so I presume you simply don't know who owns it, but what happened to all the sail numbers between 7 and 50?  Were they ever built?

Joking aside, in answer to your question, I think there are a lot of people in the 700 class who like me avoid handicap events.  With a limited number of weekend passes and a really strong and growing class circuit available (attendances up by an average of 50% this year except the Nationals, but there are reasons for that) most people prefer to do the class events.

We also know there are a lot of people who are happy simply club racing and haven't got the time to travel to opens etc due to family commitments.  You can't look at the big open events and make any conclusions about the numbers of boats or the health of the class.  Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

Now can we be friends again?

Cheers

Ian

is there not a speed limit in Windemere ?

The MPS like the 49er and 29er reserve the sail numbers 01 to 50 to be used by the first 50 in last years worlds. Boats 0 - 7 were prototypes and are slightly different in the mouldings ...

A few of the boats we have lost track of as they move through the second hand market but we know where 95% of our boats are and who has them.

Rick 

Yes the trick will be to sail slow enough without capsizing No kite and jibe backed if we had one. Its a shame they banned power boats, even though I cursed there wake in light winds when I learned to sail at South Windermere.

The waterhead and Belle Isle Race were were always fun long distance races. As a fast single hander venue the wind is a bit light and shifty,It would suit me,local knoledge required.

Ullswater the Lord Birkett Trophy 200+ boats excerllent event :)  

Jim, most SMOD's don't start at 0 ...

The biggest issue I see is that people use sail numbers as an indication of boats built. In the "good old days" when all boats had measurement certificates issued by the class or RYA then this was correct.

With SMOD's the numbers are under the control of the manufacturer so there is perhaps a temptation to leave a few tactical gaps in the numbers to make the market think there are more boats around than there really is; if you don’t get too greedy with this tactic it is very difficult to prove.

However; after a while the participation rates for your class start to look very low as the “missing” boats never turn up to an event.

I think perhaps the RYA/ISAF has a role to control sail numbers to ensure numbers are meaningful to potential buyers. This of course will never happen.

With the MPS we have chosen to publish our owners database on a public website so our numbers are exposed to public scrutiny. If all SMOD classes did this then they would not be subject to people questioning if there is really that many boats around.

Rick

I can settle this!

I issue sail numbers for all the RS boats.

The class sail number is always progressive, LDC do not skip sail numbers as we pay design royalties based on these numbers and would therefore pay for a number that was not issued. I'm very rigid on this.

Contrary to popular belief, theres no specific reason to start the sail numbers by their class number (200 at 200, 400 at 400, etc), but it does make the identification of a new class easier and more instant. Most of this benefit is gone now, with some of the classes in the 1200+ numbers. The sail number is really only a feature to distinguish each boat and shouldn't necessarily be taken as numbers of boats.

LDC and the RS Class Association are run separately and independently, and so its difficult to accurately be able to publish data on the whereabouts of 1000+ new boats per year in the same way as Rick and team post on the fantastic MPS website. There's certainly no secret to the numbers of boats we supply - we're extremely proud of the success of the classes.

The Tide Ride event was considered a huge success by all those invloved, and highlighted the strength of singlehanded assymetric sailing.  The RS700 sailors were bedazzled by the technique and boat handling of the top Musto Skiff sailors which meant they out sailed them to win the event.

Happy Sailing Gents and Ladies

Riki Hooker

mailto:Riki@rssailing.com - Riki@rssailing.com

http://www.rssailing.com - www.rssailing.com

Riki,

Thanks for clearing that up ...

Just one question; in the Y&Y 2004 racing classes review LDC declared the latest registered sail number for an RS400 as 1227. I believe Y&Y asked for the figures at 01/09/04.

On the 10/07/2004 Gavin Marshall is sailing boat 1241
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=14016 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=14016

On the 18/09/2004 Ian Pickard is sailing boat 1240
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=15026 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=15026

What am I doing wrong here?

Rick

I remember when I was sailing the Fireball years ago, there were stories about the International association issuing blocks of numbers to the National Associations, some of which never got used or were used out of sequence.  I remember reading a Worlds report and thinking it very strange that the new Australian boats were always several hundred behind the new UK boats.

Similarly, I think there were always issues in some classes with numbers being issued to home builders but never used.

Before anyone takes offence, I'm not having a dig at the Fireball which is a great class that has stood the test of time.  I'm just making the point that there have always been anomalies in numbering even with 'centralised control'.

Ian

Actually that declaration comes from the class association, though they confer with us..

Looks like theres an error somewhere.

RS400 1227 was born 9th Feb 2004

RS400 1240 was born 26th May 2004

RS400 1241 was born 4th June 2004

The latest number as of 1st Sept 2004 was 1247. Perhaps this was a typo..  but theres certainly no knowing cover up or fibing

Cheers

Fair enough ...

Anyone know when does the 2005 Review come out?

Rick