Help! After many years crewing in yacht races I have rediscovered the joy of dinghy racing.  I have spent the last two years racing in an elderly firefly and now wish to invest in a new class and have a go at open meetings, championships etc before I get too old.

My problem is that I weigh 15 ½ stone ( 100kg ) on a good day and single handers all seem to be designed for  much lighter frames.

I have looked seriously at Vortex, Blaze, RS300 but weight seems to be the problem.

Possible solutions are RS700 (too expensive / difficult), Contender (slow/obscure), Phantom (affordable entry level but expensive to be competitive) or OK (bit weird?)

All suggestion welcome apart from “diet” or “look at what they sail at your club”, I’ve tried both.

Last thing, budget £2500 max.

Fingers crossed …..

thanks for the reply but the finn seems to attract people with real money. I have looked at the finn web site and for my money I would be getting a 1970's boat which I assume would be no where near competative ( evan if sailed by an expert ie not me! )

Why would a finn be better for me than a Phantom which is cheaper and less populated by supermen ?

Suprised Scooby aint suggested an Inter 17 yet, will carry weight and cat circuits are a blast in uk.with a kite there's no stopping off wind .

I sailed unicorn and A class (delta) at that weight and was competitive too , well within  your budget.but no kite.

As a Lardy boy myself and jealous of your lightweight !!! I found for competitive monosailing your findings with Finn and Phantom to be true only way to go but to be  competitive is to be good and have right kit -exspensive .

Trust me solo cat sailing aint the end of life , just the begining !!!

You may even get an older Stealth 16 which can be sailed solo without Jib or two up with, both modes carry spinnaker and will take your weight and go well too.

you have my sympathies .

Give me an IM if you like and I can share my experience without the forum whizzs tearing it to shreds .

Good luck

Thanks everyone, much more constructive input than I was expecting!

Im quite biase towards a monohull but I will be going to look at some of the cats you suggest (on the magic web) this afternoon.....

The RS600 is one suggestion, but my reading suggests Im too heavy.

I always intended to get a two man boat but recent experiance of crews reliability has put me off ( otherwise I would get an ISO )

any more thoughts....

OK a Contender sailor had to respond to this.

A Contender is not slow - PY is 994 compared to 1048 for a Phantom.

A Contender is not obscure - it has an open meeting circuit consisting of one open every two weeks with average attendance of 27. It has a National Championship with an average attendance in the 50+ bracket. It also holds World and European Championships with 100+ entrants every year. Need I say more.

Then your budget will get you a boat with full carbon rig - there is one for sale on Y&Y at the moment. Check out http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=42&c=12 - http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/classes/?s=42&c=12

I know it is a little out of budget but you may be a ble to get it knocked down a bit - that is if it is still available.

Last thing is where do you sail? Are there any Contenders close to where you are so that you can have a go.

THe CA say the competitive weight range is between 60kg and 97kg.

Looking at the typical open meeting turnout I would say the majority are at the heavier end of that scale.

thank you for the contender info, I had no idea the events where so well attended, you have put the contender back on the "serious consideration" list.

The two key question are 1.Weight carryng and 2.price of somthing worth travelling round the country with.

I'm in cardiff and have never seen a contender out so if anyone know where there might be one being raced local'ish to me please tell..

I was 15.5 stone a year ago and found the weight wasn't a problem but being unfit was.

Phantoms certainly carry more weight than a Contender but they are still daftly overcanvassed (and a bit painful upwind) over force 4 no matter what weight you are.

I'd say if you sail somewhere windy go for a Contender or a Phantom if it's generally light.

There are certainly a few Contenders at Portishead (My old boat GBR506 went there, sold to the owner of the Boat Repair Centre) you could probably almost see them from home. I'll put you in touch with someone if you're interested.

So what are you now?

The expert has spoken... I'm just about 60kg with the wetsuit... Can I have one, pleaaaaaase!?!?!  

Turn Turtle and all you others, thanks for your help, as things stand my best option seems to be a Contender as this will carry my weight, teach me trapez and scrape under my budget.

Hopefully some more helpfull souls will log on over night and leave their words of wisdom for me to find tommorow morning ( in the style of santa! )

In the mean time, anyone out there know of a bargain contender.....

You'll have to wait until the Inlands to see.

Actually I forgot about the Blaze, I considered it myself when I moved clubs and might still get one (or a Phantom) for lighter wind days when the Contender is less than exhilarating. Don't be put off by the Topper thing - I think the CA has got it sorted now.

...and don't forget good old ebay.

There's been about 6-8 boats on there this year and although most are really only good for learning, there has been a couple I've been tempted to buy to remove any decent kit and use as a 'demo boat'

Just search on Contender and wade through one page of boxing memorobilia (yawn).

Mark, we'd better quit this or we'll be getting a name for ourselves

What just like the Cherub Promotion Squad

And guys (Mark and Matt Jackson, not related), you forgot to mention that the Contender fleet has a good social life too!
Contender sailors are cool, quite laid-back with a great sense of humour - best of all, most of them are really good-looking! (ooooooooooooops, getting carried away there )

All the class needs now, is a female sailor!

I think people just moving into dinghy sailing put too much emphasis on correct weight range.  Don't go silly like 7 stone in a Finn or Phantom, but for the first couple of years you are not going to be competitive and get the boat tune, shifts and most of all boat handling right is far more important.

If you are 15.5 stone you are unlikely to be agile enough to sail a 600 if you've never trapezed before, but Laser, Contender, and all those other classes mentioned will provide you with a great deal of fun and when (and if) you get good enough to challenge the front of an open meeting fleet then you should consider if you are in the right class.

I've been wondering when we'd get some 'talent' in the fleet. There is one female Contenderer in the UK that I know of and another in Europe when makes for interesting social events usually (always) involving beer and curry. I just console myself with the fact that we 2 more ladies in our fleet than the Phantoms.

I completely agree but when you're at the top end of the weight range it's hard to find a boat thats comfortable to sail when the wind is lighter. My brother sails a 600 though and he likened learning to sail it like learning to windsurf - most of the time you haven't a clew what's going on and it takes several months just to get it around a course.

When it's windy the Contender is fantastic with a bit of weight on it.

Don't agree - mostly for psychological reasons. Why aren't I as fast as the front guys? Because I'm too light/heavy, so there is nothing I can do about it. If you are the right weight you don't have an excuse, so you work out how to do it better. Dennis Conner's book is called "No excuses to lose" - it makes a lot of sense.

The comment about being in the correct weight range for psychological reasons is spot on. I've been sailing for years and resently attended some training weekends yet i've no real idea if im any good/ getting better. If I get myself in the correct boat then I have, as you say, no excuses.

Contender currently top of my list ( partly because the contender web site is more busness like than the yo-ho-ho phantom one )

thanks again for all your thoughts

Was reading a report on Weston Contender traveller last night and there was mention of Keith Paul and his 100 kgs doing well .

What it did n't say , though I may be rang ( no you're right its a meringue - old scottish joke - sorry). was I seem to remember K P 's name from my contender sailing which I'm ashamed to say was nearly 20 yrs ago !!, he was good then.

In a worrying turn of events I also agree with Stephan, I always analyse every control for effeciency, power and position and as much as possible class standard. I guess unconsciously I have done this with class choice as well.

I used to sail at Weston and unless Keith has put on at least 2 stone in the last 18 months he is nowhere near 100kg. He is however incredibly hard to beat (I never managed it in the 3 years a sailed there) because he's sailed the boat for 25-30 years.

so he's not 100 kg (tut tut report writer )

and I was right sailed them out the ark.

Contender class has a wealth of VERY experienced sailors at the top that have sailed for very long time.

Very friendly and helpfull class , and amazing turnouts at European and national events , plus some of the best have been known to eat haggis.

The above post reminds me of another consideration. Is the Condender a sensible choice for racing on inland water? I just ask because haveing been resurching my potental purchace they appear to be 16 feet long which i think is more than most...

Keep the advice coming I think I've nearly made a desision!

as they say length doesn't count !!!

20 foot cats sail inland no trouble and 17 !

Thank flip for that, I couldnt face starting the desision making process again

Any one else got any helpfull thoughts? I will be checking back on Monday

Thanks All

Ok, the weekend has passed and i'm still keen.

Two questions

1. Do any of you contender owners have the power to get the "for sail" section of your web site updated?

2. Does any one know of a condender anywhere in the cardiff / bristol area I could go and see in the flesh? I see you have your champs on Rutland water so I might take a trip up north.

nice one

No, sorry. Have you tried emailing the contact on the page - Jerry Driscoll I think.

Like I said before there is a couple in Portishead which I think is the closest to you. I can put you in touch with someone if you PM me your email address.

Try joining the Yahoo e-group and asking there as there are a lot more UK and international sailors on there and you can look at the post archives for more advise - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contender/ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contender/

Matt

Thanks for your help with all this

1.I have emailed the man in charge of the "for sail" list

2. I have applied for membership of the yahoo group.

I will be driving down the m5 on wednesday and if time allows I will make a detor to portishead, at least I might see them in the dinghy park

thanks again

If anyone has any contact with someone selling a Contender please direct them to the the British Contender Association website. It is free, even for non-members and simple to get your boat listed on the website and most sell straight away, especially around £1-1500.

There is a bit of a shortage of second-hand boats at the moment.

Everyone above, I thank you.

Last night I picked up my shiny black contender ( No 56? ) and will be getting it rigged and hoping for superlight winds at the weekend.

You were all really helpfull and now I am as excited as a squirel in a nut shop.

wish me luck......

d

Yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa

Congratulations!! Another member of the family!!!!

Was that black Contender in Weston SC? It was for sale last time we were there... It's got a picture of something with teeth on the hull...  A toy for boys, that one.

Good luck, remember to DUCK when you tack, don't break your nose on the tower in the process, use your teeth liberally (à la Contender443, who's always biting the mainsheet), hold on to whatever you can on a broad reach, watch the trapeze hook on the centreboard trailing edge when (if !) you capsize...... errr, that's it for me, I've only sailed a Contender four times! 

Oh yeah, one more thing: HAVE FUN !!!

See you in open meetings next year??

Well I thought I was sending a final message to this thread but your still suporting me!

turnturtle : your on but my madien voyage may be next weekend due to a poor forecast and lack of a harness

Black no sugar : brilliant message and yes i will be at some open meetings next year if i get any way at all up the learning curve

Danp freddy : you answered your own question, megabyte is a lovely boat but makes giant pandas look common!

still excited!!

d

Absolutely! you're part of the family now.

I went to the Inlands the other week (unlike some), don't ask about results - no wind, but there was lots of newbies there some of which beat me fairly robustly. There was also a great evening in the pub with an impromtu teach-in by no less than 3 former Nats winners!

You'll see me at the Midlands events (Oxford is about as far south as I come) if you can make them. Burton is good if it blows, Filey is fantastic if there's waves (there usually is) and Rutland? well it's Rutland isn't it.

Hi Bigum,

What sailing club are you at. I'm just about to pick up my Contender and live about 20 miles east of Cardiff. I haven't decided on a club yet although there is one close by (Llandegfedd) which looks favourite at the moment.

Hi turnturtle and crewless

I've been away for the last two weekends and the contender has yet to get launched ( Im ashamed to say )

This weekend the forcast says SNOW but if the winds are not tooo strong I shall be down at cardiff bay breaking the ice to get launched. Maybe the cold will be the insentive I need not to fall in to often.

Crewless, I'm a member of the Cardiff Bay Yatch Club which is the one on the Penarth side of the bay, the sunday morning dinghy racing there is fairly well supported and runs all year except for a Jan/Feb break.

I work near the Llandegfedd reseviour which also looks like a nice peice of water but I have never sailed there. It's great to know of another contender near by, maybe we could have a self help group once the snow has passed!

Penarth is a noce looking club, with a decent bit of water, so I might consider going there later on.

I sailed at Llandegfedd a couple of years ago. It is a nice bit of water but hasn't got much of a club house . The launching facilities are improving, and you do get nice strange courses set with loads of marks. Can be a bit still near the edges, with gusts all over the place. As I will be learning  how to sail the contender, I'll probably go there first as it is fresh water, and usually a bit warmer. Definately not sailing in the snow.

Hope to see you on the water some time for a tune up.