2nd hand National 12 or RS200?
Printed From: Yachts and Yachting Online
Category: General
Forum Name: Choosing a boat
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URL: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1080
Printed Date: 04 Aug 25 at 10:24pm
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Topic: 2nd hand National 12 or RS200?
Posted By: boomer
Subject: 2nd hand National 12 or RS200?
Date Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 9:00pm
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What are the benefits/pitfalls of each. I guess the obvious differences are cost of purchase & availability of entry level examples - which is best for lake sailing, probably in a handicap fleet. ------------- There may be trouble ahead! |
Replies:
Posted By: Isis
Date Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 9:23pm
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If we are talking about a small inland lake, the 12 wins hands down.
Fantastic tactical boats and although they arent as fast as the 200 and
lack the kite (often a good thing on small courses) they are great fun
to sail. A modern one will dominate on handicap aswell ------------- |
Posted By: kasey3000
Date Posted: 05 Oct 05 at 10:02pm
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I sailed my RS200 very successfully on a 75acre lake.... you can goose-wing the kite in handicap racing so it is very handy for club racing when the race officer won't give u reaches on the py of 1059 we won the races quite often and that was against kestrels, solo's lasers, wayfarers, laser4000 and buzzes! the rs200 is quite pricey second hand..but they hold their value for a vvvv long time! out of the 2 i don't hav ne xperience of the n12...but a boat with kite is always soooo much betr! .....even the 200 kite is betr than nothing ------------- 49er 908 |
Posted By: Stefan Lloyd
Date Posted: 06 Oct 05 at 7:25am
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Depends on the skill level of your crew. No kite = can take inexperienced crew racing. Kite = really need experienced and/or regular crew. There are lots of 2-handed boats gathering dust because the helm can't find crew, so this is a serious consideration. |
Posted By: Harry44981!
Date Posted: 06 Oct 05 at 4:08pm
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i've owned both, the national will almost always do better on handicap on a small pond, but we sold our nat. 12 for a 200, for some fun downwind. Both boats are great, for different things rs200 is more fun, but more expensive, national's are cheaper (as ,long as you don't keep changing with the dev.) but can be tedious downwind, and fill up[ after a capsize. ------------- |
Posted By: stuarthop
Date Posted: 06 Oct 05 at 6:39pm
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only if you have a non self drainer though ------------- |
Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 11 Oct 05 at 10:44pm
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The 12 is always going to be a much cheaper entry level option.
For lake racing a 500quid example will win races while a 1K one will be
competitive at opens. Boats of this age won't depreciate much so its a
very safe way to try out the class. The 200s kite and PY are misleading, modern 12s certainly appear to be faster upwind and down than a 200 in almost all conditions. At starcross the 200s start 3 minutes ahead of the 12s but we usually catch them on the first lap, sometimes the first leg! Not having a kite makes for one less expensive sail to be replaced. With adjustable shroouds, a very full main and the dangly pole there's plenty of power available in a 12 offwind and plenty to keep the crew occupied. Upwind the 12 will outpoint most other classes which is very handy on a handicap startline. Boathandling is probably more critical with the 12, whether this is a positive or a negative will depend on your outlook: to start with it may mean more swimming but ultimately will give more satisfaction and make you a better sailor... On top of that we're a very friendly bunch, so if you'd like a test sail hop on over to www.national12.org and say you're interested in trying one out. Wherever you are in the country we're sure to have someone to lend you a boat for an afternoon. Cheers Tim N3497 'Shiny Disco Balls' |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 12 Oct 05 at 12:18pm
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I've sailed both.
these clips should help you understand which I would buy. http://www.national12.org/pictures/movies/reachi%7E2.wmv - http: //www.national12.org/pictures/movies/reachi%7E2.wmv http://www.national12.org/pictures/movies/surfin.wmv - http://www.national12.org/pictures/movies/surfin.wmv ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |
Posted By: Hector
Date Posted: 12 Oct 05 at 1:53pm
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Not bad clips Jack. Sorry to send most of you to If you want to do opens with comparatively big fleets and one design racing get a 200. If you don't mind smaller (but very competative fleets) get a 12 - but be aware that anything more than a couple of years old will only be competative on small ponds or in the 'classic' fleet - where that exists. Money wise, 200s hold value well, but a sub £1000 Nat 12 can't lose much either. |
by repeating old advice but - it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to club race and they sail 12s at your local club get one but if they sail 200s get one of them. Posted By: DiscoBall
Date Posted: 12 Oct 05 at 6:36pm
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Fine advice Hector, but I would point out that there are boats in the
top ten at the champs getting on for 8-10 years old and unless you are
of the skills that you are expecting to win the champs in your first
year then it doesn't make a shred of difference if you have a new or 20
year old boat. A 1000 quid 12 will win club races at any sort of venue, even open sea races and if well sailed can win the smaller opens. The Admirals Cup division for the non-self draining boats is well supported and the prizes are generally of a similar level to the overall winners (so thats 200quid f Gill vouchers for the first AC boat in the Gill Series as well as for the overall prize!). Cheers Tim |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 12 Oct 05 at 10:43pm
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go for a N12, RS200's are just conforming to the trend. Everyone has them, they're boring and look like a camels arse. But if you go for one then just make sure it's not a broken one! ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: tgruitt
Date Posted: 12 Oct 05 at 10:44pm
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maofbgis ------------- Needs to sail more... |
Posted By: Olly4088
Date Posted: 03 Dec 05 at 11:30pm
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All, In my eyes being the owner of a mad looking nat 12, and having sailed an rs200, for any inland water there is no comparison. The nat 12 is by far better as raised above on handicap and you will be overtaking the 200's after about 2 minutes even though their handicap is quicker. If you want a challenging boat then get a nat 12 due to all those hundreds of adjustable bits and bobs! But if you want a toy, but a 200. The 200 is great boat but not as challenging/exciting as a nat 12. Your choice. Iain Walker Nat 12 3404 "The arouser!" ------------- Phantom 1298 |
Posted By: Jack Sparrow
Date Posted: 04 Dec 05 at 9:51am
Good to see you are giving here back the her original name - rather than however owned her last calling her 'The Mouser'. that was just lame. ------------- http://www.uk3-7class.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Class Website https://www.facebook.com/groups/1092602470772759/" rel="nofollow - Farr 3.7 Building - Facebook Group |